Kwan chosen by committee to go to Olys.

Joesitz said:

Easy on personal attacks. Millie, I think it is your use of the Rofl smilie that gets posters worked up, There doesn't seem to be any reason for them except to debase a skater. Most posters use them when something is funny like a remark by Johnny and not to debase Johnny. Yours seem to represent a joke you made and at the expense of a skater. JMO.

Joe

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Yes, it was a joke and not at the expense of a skater. How come you do not react the same way when other posters debase Sasha. Sasha has been condemed and hung by a number of posters since she won Nationals. Why aren't the mods talking about these personal attacks? By the way, I was not debasing a skater, i I make a remark that Michelle would have to pull a Forrest Gump in order to be ready for the Olympics. If you ever had watched the movie, you would see that my comment was not bad. I called that poster a lurker because they admitted that they lurk on the forums. Rolfs are used a lot on this forum, not only by me, and they are used to poke fun at other skaters.

attyfan said:

First, the events were considered in priority order, excluding Nats, with '05 Worlds second on the list (right behind the GPF). Individual GP events are not listed, and, the junior events (where Emily and Kimmie had competed) were the lowest priority events. Second, no one else has done more -- Sasha didn't do GPF, either, Alissa didn't do Worlds. Third, Michelle's scores at Worlds were better than any other American except Sasha.. Also, what the committee was supposed to decide is who had the best chance of getting a medal, Michelle or Emily. That Michelle's chances aren't good does not alter the fact that they are better than Emily's. And finally (and IMO, most important) is that the committee accepted Michelle's invitation for a test skate on Jan 27, so they can see if her programs are competitive. If they are not, she withdraws -- unless she wants the committee to kick her off.

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And there's no qualifying round at the Olympics for Kwan to blow off.

Joesitz said:

Easy on personal attacks. Millie, I think it is your use of the Rofl smilie that gets posters worked up, There doesn't seem to be any reason for them except to debase a skater. Most posters use them when something is funny like a remark by Johnny and not to debase Johnny. Yours seem to represent a joke you made and at the expense of a skater. JMO.

Joe

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My opinion as well.

millie said:

Yes, it was a joke and not at the expense of a skater. How come you do not react the same way when other posters debase Sasha. Sasha has been condemed and hung by a number of posters since she won Nationals. Why aren't the mods talking about these personal attacks? By the way, I was not debasing a skater, i I make a remark that Michelle would have to pull a Forrest Gump in order to be ready for the Olympics. If you ever had watched the movie, you would see that my comment was not bad. I called that poster a lurker because they admitted that they lurk on the forums. Rolfs are used a lot on this forum, not only by me, and they are used to poke fun at other skaters.

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I didn't see Forest Gump. I am not much of a movie goer - maybe 3-4 times a year. OK but why so many ROFLs icons? How hilarious was your personal joke and would not a laugh smilie work?

As for Sasha, I have come to object many times to posters who dish Sasha. There was one in particular whom we had a few pages of interactive bs.
I have respect for all figure skaters and not just Americans.

Joe

HaHa- I'm a Kwan fan but had to laugh at your comment Mr. Hoffa. Hope things aren't too cold in the Meadowlands.

I really can't beleive this is an issue. If Alissa had skate well and still been third it would have been a pretty big decision. If Cohen had fallen to 3rd it would have been Armegedon. But Emily Hughes with 3 clean triples in the LP and a wonky combo in the short does not push this issue to the level of WuzRobbed.

BTW- I just realized their were actually 2 people voting who lost Oly spots to a committee insertion on that panel- Mitchell and Hartsell. So I'm sure if there was anguish to be explained it would have been.

On a link posted at a different forum, I read an ESPN article today where somebody that was actually in attendence during the meeting to decide the ladies Oly team, said that Emily and her skating were never even discussed. It was all about Michelle Kwan. Of course, this "somebody", didn't want ESPN to use their name in the article, so I guess we will never know who the source was!

Anyway, I'm not posting this for or against Kwan, I just thought it was an interesting bit of info...

Eldredgefan2001 said:

Yes, Emily does deserve it because she skated for it and won the bronze medal.

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No, this is incorrect. Emily does not deserve anything just because she competed at Nats and won a bronze. She only got that placement because Michelle was injured and not able to be there.
There was a precedent for MK to receive a bye, and rightfully she was given one.
The only real thing that matters is sending the best team to the Olympics ... and that's what they are doing. Emily's 4 triple LP just won't get it done.

I don't think the Committee was to discuss anything about Emily or any other skater who might have placed as she did. The Committee was encumbered to discuss the petition. Not just my opinion.

On a personal note, I was there and saw a very good Emily SP but I also saw a very poor LP. JMO.

Joe

Joesitz said:

I don't think the Committee was to discuss anything about Emily or any other skater who might have placed as she did. The Committee was encumbered to discuss the petition. Not just my opinion.

On a personal note, I was there and saw a very good Emily SP but I also saw a very poor LP. JMO.

Joe

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If I'm not mistaken, the primary charge to the USFS International Committee was to select the U.S. Olympic team. Michelle's petition was part of the information they had to work with.

But, for instance, if they had wanted to, they could have decided to put Orsher and Lucash on the team instead of Hinzmann and Parchem.

MM

nubka said:

On a link posted at a different forum, I read an ESPN article today where somebody that was actually in attendence during the meeting to decide the ladies Oly team, said that Emily and her skating were never even discussed. It was all about Michelle Kwan. Of course, this "somebody", didn't want ESPN to use their name in the article, so I guess we will never know who the source was!

Anyway, I'm not posting this for or against Kwan, I just thought it was an interesting bit of info...

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Can you post a link to the link please?

nubka said:

On a link posted at a different forum, I read an ESPN article today where somebody that was actually in attendence during the meeting to decide the ladies Oly team, said that Emily and her skating were never even discussed. It was all about Michelle Kwan. Of course, this "somebody", didn't want ESPN to use their name in the article, so I guess we will never know who the source was!

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Was that part of the Committee's decision making? I thought it was simply to discuss the merits or demerits of Kwan, Whether Emily or Bebe were to be bumped if the committee approved is irrelevant as it was in 1994.

Joe

I think that people who had a personal relationship with Kwan, the judges at the event and those with a relationship to the other potential olympic ladies team mebers were obligated to recuse themselves from the voting. Congemi had to recuse because he coaches Bebe and works with Frank Carrol who was also MK's former coach.

The skating community is small and Kwan has been at it for so long, so it would be very difficult to find people who haven't had some kind of relationship with her. Add that her sister skated and is married to Peter Oppegard and it gets more difficult.

Piel said:

Can you post a link to the link please?

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I've never tried to post a link before, but I'll see if I can figure out how to do it tomorrow...

(If it doesn't work, I'll message you about how you can find the article.)

To post a link, go to the page that you want to link to, copy the url from your browser's address bar, then paste it into the Golden Skate dialogue box. The GS software will do the rest automatically.

If you copy the link directly from the other forum it might not work because the entire url might not be visible.

MM

Joesitz said:

Easy on personal attacks. Millie, I think it is your use of the Rofl smilie that gets posters worked up, There doesn't seem to be any reason for them except to debase a skater. Most posters use them when something is funny like a remark by Johnny and not to debase Johnny. Yours seem to represent a joke you made and at the expense of a skater. JMO.
Joe

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JMO, but I think you, Joe, are the one who owes Millie an apology. You call her out based on a remark she made linking Michelle to a movie you've never seen and then you say you think it is Millie's use of the ROFL emoticon that "gets posters worked up." In the post in question, Millie used two. Plus you assume that the only reason people seem to use them is to debase a skater. IMO, it would have made a lot more sense and set a far better example as a moderator to either PM Millie or in a post, ask her what she meant by her post rather than make assumptions about information you knew nothing about.

Also, Paralegalmkfan posted to Millie,

I mostly lurk and very seldom post, but I have to say this. You are truly one of the most annoying people on this board ~ and you're not funny. Well, maybe in your own mind you are.

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Yet you, Joe, went after Millie, saying, "Easy on the personal attacks." Paralegalmkfan posts to Millie, "You are truly one of the most annoying people on this board..." Paralegalmkfan's (PLMKF) direct insult to Millie is clearly a peresonal attack, but never even referred to that.

Millie responded to this direct attack by PLMKF by posting:

What did I say that was so wrong in my post? I was stating an opinion! The girl has been injured all season, hasn't skated or trained because she has been injured. Could hardly walk for awhile and seeing doctors. Any of this sound familiar or are living in a dream world with the . Face reality, the girl is going to have to work her -ut of[f] within the next few days to get herself back into shape and true form. She probaly can do it, but wouldn't you like to see her pull a Forrest Gump and not to have to go through all the pain of trying to get into shape.

Lurk--to stay hidden, ready to spring out, attack, lie in wait.
Are you a lurker?

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The first part of Millie's post is an explanation of her post. I don't see any personal attacks of PLMKF in that part at all. In the second part, Millie provides a definition of "lurk." A case can be made to suggest to Millie that she say that although she knows "lurk" has a different use on forums, this is the dictionary defination of "lurk." In that regard, I suppose the second half could be interpreted as an insult, but still, Millie asks, "Are you a lurker?" in the dictionary definition. She does NOT say to PLMKF, "Obviously you like to stay hidden so you can be ready to spring out and attack," the way PLMKF directly attacked Millie.

IMO, one of the main purposes of the moderators is to try to help settle problems between or among posters, not exacerbate them. It seems to me that more of an effort could have been made on your part to be fair to both posters. I made a previous suggestion of what you could have said to Millie. To keep things even and not single out one poster for calling out when the other poster, IMO, made a clear and direct attack on another poster, in my very strong opinion, PLMKF should have been treated the same way as Millie, even though I don't think you treated Millie's post well at all.

I wouldn't bring this up if it were an isolated incident, but especially since September, it's an unfortunate trend I've seen with you, Joe. Posters have even PMd me about it, ie, "What's wrong with Joe?" That is not a quote; it's the gist of the purpose of the Joe-related PMs I've been getting. Perhaps I should have PMd you about this whole situation, but you seem to either ignore or mock my posts in your replies to me. Also, there is no way I've found to deal with a moderator who has begun a strong pattern of favoritism and taking odd "pot shots" at posters. It seemed pointless to PM the other mods and Paula expects us to deal with these problems ourselves. But the biggest reason is that your pattern of "moderating" I described above seems to me to have gotten worse as time has gone on. I thought that before the Olympics, it should come out in the open so, as Paula wants us to do, we can deal with this problem ourselves.

My original post here was sarcastic and actually treating you the way I saw you treating certain posters, which I regret posting. As soon as I could, I edited it and hopefully it has the tone I intend, which is not to personally attack you, but rather to make you aware of a situation that more than a few people have noticed in the way you are moderating.

The only other remark I have is related to your post #45, in which you say,

As for Sasha, I have come to object many times to posters who dish Sasha. There was one in particular whom we had a few pages of interactive bs.

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Since the exchange you refer to was posted, I'd like to know what it is and who exactly said what, because I've never seen you object to posters who diss Sasha. I hope it's clear to the posters on GS that since 2003 and "Aranjuez," I've liked Michelle's skating a lot. In fact I go back and forth as to who I think is doing better, Michelle or Sasha. So I have no preference there. Even prior to 2003, my posts about Sasha were mainly in defense of her because certain posters, one of which has been banned, partly due to what his hatred of Sasha led to, repeatedly posted really ugly things about Sasha. Sasha had and still has a lot of things to work on, but I figured somebody should point out her strengths.

Unfortunately, since about the beginning of the season, it seems that you interpret a lot of even positive remarks about Michelle as if they were negative, for reasons of ignorance, misreading, or who knows why. From then on it becomes as if that poster is put on Joe's hit list. The same happens the opposite way with Sasha. Posters you perceive as intense Sasha fans, whether their posts support this assumption or not, also are on Joe's hit list.

This is probably in vain, IMO I've been on your "pot shots" list almost since I joined GS, but I do value the atmosphere at GS and I know you do too. I don't think you would purposefully do anything to undermine the comardery, with natural disagreements, at GS. So I took this chance. I hope what I've said is taken in the spirit with which it was intended.

Rgirl

Trying to get this link up for you, Piel. If you can't get directly to the site, just paste it in your address bar.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/winter06/figure/columns/story?id=2294269

A balanced accounting of the situation, IMHO. However, I think that Michelle could still withdraw citing injury after the Jan. 30 date and Emily will still get to go.

For Michelle and her fans I think the issue is this: Is she miss sugar and spice and everything nice, as per her public image? Or is she first and foremost a competitive athlete who is out to win, and the devil take the hindmost?

MM

BTW, if you click on Sasha you can see her LP (after listening to Bode Miller form 30 seconds, LOL.)

Mathman said:

...
For Michelle and her fans I think the issue is this: Is she miss sugar and spice and everything nice, as per her public image? Or is she first and foremost a competitive athlete who is out to win, and the devil take the hindmost?

MM

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I don't agree, at least not at this stage. One issue is whether Michelle should be punished for being nice by being criticized for seeking the same right granted to Todd Eldredge, Meno & Sand and other athletes who weren't whacked -- the right to seek a medical bye -- and get sent to the Olys, over young skaters who competed at Nats. It was OK for Todd, or for Meno & Sand, why isn't it OK for Michelle? Certainly, this kind of criticism for Michelle will not encourage other skaters to be nice.

The second is when the Olympics should be the time for giving experience to young skaters, as opposed to sending the best, even when the best couldn't compete at Nats. In all the discussion over who should and shouldn't go, I have not found a lot of people who think that Emily is actually better than Kan.

Back on topic. Michelle has stated that if she was not ready she would withdraw her name from the olympic team. She would not want to go the olympics and not skate the best that she can medal or not. A healthy Michelle is one of the best US ladies skaters we have and hopefully she will be ready to go come olympic time.