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- Aug 29, 2003
I don't think a Russian sweep would be bad for figure skating in general, just for American figure skating. It'd be wonderful for Russian FS.
Is Scott H anti-Russian?
- Thread starter attyfan
- Start date
Whoa, hello, context please.
I've talked to several skating producers and skaters recently about the state of pro skating for an article I'm writing, and it's not anti-Russian bigotry driving statements like these. It's looking at the realities of the business and marketing and the audience... "terrible thing for skating" is a sweeping statement but for skating in North America, having an all Russian sweep would be terrible for the business of skating. No champions for American audiences to rally to, etc. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that for skating to do well in North America, one needs successful North American skaters (where success = international gold medals). And that's not just from a business, bringing in the audiences standpoint, but also from an attracting people to the sport so we can keep skating strong as a sport with lots of young participants standpoint.
And a complete sweep by one country doesn't really help the sport anywhere but Russia either, even discounting skating in North America...
I think Scott Hamilton tends to take the business of skating in America closer to heart than a lot of other skaters or commentators b/c he's so tied into the business side of things with Stars on Ice and attempting to promote the sport in general (hence why he got involved with Skating with Celebrities, etc) so he sees things in those terms a bit more than most.
I've talked to several skating producers and skaters recently about the state of pro skating for an article I'm writing, and it's not anti-Russian bigotry driving statements like these. It's looking at the realities of the business and marketing and the audience... "terrible thing for skating" is a sweeping statement but for skating in North America, having an all Russian sweep would be terrible for the business of skating. No champions for American audiences to rally to, etc. The one thing everyone seems to agree on is that for skating to do well in North America, one needs successful North American skaters (where success = international gold medals). And that's not just from a business, bringing in the audiences standpoint, but also from an attracting people to the sport so we can keep skating strong as a sport with lots of young participants standpoint.
And a complete sweep by one country doesn't really help the sport anywhere but Russia either, even discounting skating in North America...
I think Scott Hamilton tends to take the business of skating in America closer to heart than a lot of other skaters or commentators b/c he's so tied into the business side of things with Stars on Ice and attempting to promote the sport in general (hence why he got involved with Skating with Celebrities, etc) so he sees things in those terms a bit more than most.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
It will be very interesting to me to see whether the conventional wisdom of figure skating marketeers will continue to prevail, or whether they are living in the past.
Dorothy Hamill said that in her day, it was either win an Olympic gold medal and join Ice Capades or take silver and go back home and be a secretary. SOI skaters from Scott Hamilton to Kristi Yamaguchi have said that it was the publicity from the OGM that gave them the opportunity to succeed as professional entertainers.
But a decade later Michelle Kwan, without an OGM, turned that concept on its head.
Conceivably it might also be the case that U.S. audiences have grown a little less insular and that they are ready to embrace talent from other parts of the world. The Beatles did OK in the U.S. market.
Stefan Lambiel, Brian Joubert, and Daisuke Takahashi, along with Yagudin, have a kind of cosmopolitan appeal. A skater like Evgeny Plushenko, a Russian's Russian -- hey, that's cool, too.
Dorothy Hamill said that in her day, it was either win an Olympic gold medal and join Ice Capades or take silver and go back home and be a secretary. SOI skaters from Scott Hamilton to Kristi Yamaguchi have said that it was the publicity from the OGM that gave them the opportunity to succeed as professional entertainers.
But a decade later Michelle Kwan, without an OGM, turned that concept on its head.
Conceivably it might also be the case that U.S. audiences have grown a little less insular and that they are ready to embrace talent from other parts of the world. The Beatles did OK in the U.S. market.
Stefan Lambiel, Brian Joubert, and Daisuke Takahashi, along with Yagudin, have a kind of cosmopolitan appeal. A skater like Evgeny Plushenko, a Russian's Russian -- hey, that's cool, too.
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- Dec 8, 2004
Yes, Scott Hamilton is an anti-Russian bigot. He has made that clear many times, most notably by abusing his position with NBC to defame B/S at Salt Lake, defaming Urmanov in Norway, and the list goes on and on. He is also a self-proclaimed homophobe who is disgusted by gays in skating and defames even straight male skaters with a "feminine" style.
All of that does not stop most US fans from
whenever he appears. I was probably one of the few who did not to Scott at the OGM ceremony at nationals this year. Most others were in hysterics at the mention of his name.
I guess the Russian skaters should try to make a real contribution to the sport by whoring themselves on Skating with Celebrities.
All of that does not stop most US fans from
whenever he appears. I was probably one of the few who did not to Scott at the OGM ceremony at nationals this year. Most others were in hysterics at the mention of his name. I guess the Russian skaters should try to make a real contribution to the sport by whoring themselves on Skating with Celebrities.
Who ever has the best skate that night should win gold. If Sasha can hang in and have 2 perfect clean programs she can win gold. But as always her nerves will get to her and she will probably end up with silver or bronze.
Ben & Tanith have a very good chance to win silver or bronze.
We really don't have a pair team that's a medal contender. Wish we did but!
Johnny or Evan but have good chance at a medal.
Now my answer to the qusetion, is Scott Anti-Russian? Don't think so, but then sometimes he sticks his foot in his mouth.
Ben & Tanith have a very good chance to win silver or bronze.
We really don't have a pair team that's a medal contender. Wish we did but!
Johnny or Evan but have good chance at a medal.
Now my answer to the qusetion, is Scott Anti-Russian? Don't think so, but then sometimes he sticks his foot in his mouth.
S
SkateFan4Life
Guest
I don't think Scott is anti-Russian, per se. However, he makes a good point, for a number of reasons, some of which have already been expressed in this thread.
-- If the Russians sweep the gold medals, there will be sniping and bickering among the skating community about rigged judging, and there will be a certain amount of exasperation from the casual skating fan who might think, "Oh sure, he/she/they won the gold medal just because they're Russian."
-- It's a better competition if the gold medals - in fact all medals - are spread out among different countries. As an American, of course I would love to see the US skaters sweep the gold medals (fat chance of that ever happening) but as a figure skating fan, I think it is best when the medals are spread out among skaters from different countries, and different continents, all things being equal.
-- Of course, there's no denying that the Russians are favorites in all four disciplines, and if they all skate at the top of their game, there certainly won't be an argument from me that they deserve those gold medals.
Scott Hamilton competed during the Cold War days, when there was all kinds of back door snookery going on, with judges trading their marks with other judges so that their skater(s) would win, etc. I don't think he necessarily still has the Cold War mentality, and if he does, for Pete's sakes, Scott, get over it!!
-- If the Russians sweep the gold medals, there will be sniping and bickering among the skating community about rigged judging, and there will be a certain amount of exasperation from the casual skating fan who might think, "Oh sure, he/she/they won the gold medal just because they're Russian."
-- It's a better competition if the gold medals - in fact all medals - are spread out among different countries. As an American, of course I would love to see the US skaters sweep the gold medals (fat chance of that ever happening) but as a figure skating fan, I think it is best when the medals are spread out among skaters from different countries, and different continents, all things being equal.
-- Of course, there's no denying that the Russians are favorites in all four disciplines, and if they all skate at the top of their game, there certainly won't be an argument from me that they deserve those gold medals.
Scott Hamilton competed during the Cold War days, when there was all kinds of back door snookery going on, with judges trading their marks with other judges so that their skater(s) would win, etc. I don't think he necessarily still has the Cold War mentality, and if he does, for Pete's sakes, Scott, get over it!!
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Never mind Scott's remark, what about this line:
"The Russians are arguably favored to win gold in all four disciplines, and it might be up to the Americans to stop them"
What about Canada and the rest of the nations represented at the Olympics? Are we not included? It's not the USA/Russian Games. It's the Olymics - everyone has a shot at the medals.
"The Russians are arguably favored to win gold in all four disciplines, and it might be up to the Americans to stop them"
What about Canada and the rest of the nations represented at the Olympics? Are we not included? It's not the USA/Russian Games. It's the Olymics - everyone has a shot at the medals.
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
Mathman said:Kind of a throw-away line for Scott, it seems to me. I think he just means that it would be better PR for the sport if the medals are spread around a little.
This was the quote that I liked the best, from Richard Callaghan about Sasha's prospects:
"Irina obviously has a long history of competing and is a good skater. But I think our skater, Sasha, has abilities that are superior," Callaghan said. "She has probably similar athletic abilities, but with the new scoring system and components, in my mind, she outscores Irina by quite a bit."
Too bad the CoP scores are tallied in the ISU computers instead of in Callaghan's mind.But hey, go Sasha!
MM
Sasha has similar athletic abilities as Irina's?
She outscores Irina quite a bit "only in Callaghan's mind".
Vash
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- Jul 31, 2003
SkateFan4Life said:
Isn't it interesting that no Russian men or ladies were winning gold medals when Scott was competing? The 1980, 84, 88 Olympic champions were from UK, USA, USA. Scott himself won 4 world titles and an OGM in a row. Did he make some deals? If winning consistently means corruption or making deals, same rules should apply here.
The Russian/USSR pairs and ice dance teams (except Torville-Dean) were clearly superior to the rest of the world. I don't see who could have beaten them those days (now they are not dominating).
Vash
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- Jul 26, 2003
If Hamilton were only interested in the skaters who won medals, Steven Cousins would not be skating in SOI, and Ina/Zimmerman would be marginal. If he were only interested in OGMs, Krylova/Ovsiannikov's and Roz Sumner's silvers wouldn't have been good enough. It seems to me that he likes to hire his friends.
I didn't see people staying away in droves because Alexei Yagudin was in the show. And now that more touring is possible in Russia, Japan, and Europe, we are lucky for the time Russian skaters are willing to put into the show.
From the standpoint of running a touring show with a theme and group numbers, there are a number of factors in making it successful. Sure, there are the big names, but a group of people that are living in buses and together for months at a time need to be cooperative and try to get along, and having contrasting strengths and abilities makes the show interesting. It's not just the individuals, like in COI.
I didn't see people staying away in droves because Alexei Yagudin was in the show. And now that more touring is possible in Russia, Japan, and Europe, we are lucky for the time Russian skaters are willing to put into the show.
From the standpoint of running a touring show with a theme and group numbers, there are a number of factors in making it successful. Sure, there are the big names, but a group of people that are living in buses and together for months at a time need to be cooperative and try to get along, and having contrasting strengths and abilities makes the show interesting. It's not just the individuals, like in COI.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I think primarily that Scott enjoys hiring his friends whenever he can, and this includes Russians. He was the main reason for US skaters going to Russia for the funeral of the G. He has hired many Russians in SOI. I believe he hires on popularity as well as friendships and OGM medals. He is a business man now, and he has to work with the options for the best show he can produce. He's not going to please everyone.
Scott is not gay as most figure skaters are not. Scott loves his sport and does not want it to be degraded as a 'girlie' sport. I have no idea if he will not consider skaters whom he believes are gay.
IMO, he is definitely not anti-Russian but maybe anti-gay, at least in hiring.
Joe
Scott is not gay as most figure skaters are not. Scott loves his sport and does not want it to be degraded as a 'girlie' sport. I have no idea if he will not consider skaters whom he believes are gay.
IMO, he is definitely not anti-Russian but maybe anti-gay, at least in hiring.
Joe
Well, ratings are down, and attendance numbers at Stars on Ice and other shows are also definitely down as well, and have been decreasing for several years. I don't think people have been "staying away in droves" due to Alexei Yagudin but you can't really say that the numbers have remained constant or gone up in recent years when there haven't been major American stars (with all due respect to Todd Eldredge) either. For sure Alexei draws people, but the number of people drawn are much lower than when more American skaters were dominating skating. Are the producers wrong that the general public in America still are interested mostly in the Americans? I'm not seeing evidence they are in the TV ratings or attendance at shows.
And IMO, Scott and co are interested in a balanced show. OGM (or, in Paul Wylie or Rosalynn Sumners' case, OSM) and world champions as "names" to hype and bring in the audiences, but then other skaters to round out the cast and get more exposure. Not least because OGMs and other Olympic medalists are going to be paid a lot more and if the whole cast consisted of them (if that was even possible), the show would be a lot more expensive to produce. Plus, as we said, Americans draw more Americans than non-Americans, and so they have to draw from the pool of available Americans, like Ina/Zimmerman. Steven Cousins may have some help from being friends with Scott, but my guess is he's fairly inexpensive, has audience appeal, and is a good go-to guy for any ensemble they do.
And IMO, Scott and co are interested in a balanced show. OGM (or, in Paul Wylie or Rosalynn Sumners' case, OSM) and world champions as "names" to hype and bring in the audiences, but then other skaters to round out the cast and get more exposure. Not least because OGMs and other Olympic medalists are going to be paid a lot more and if the whole cast consisted of them (if that was even possible), the show would be a lot more expensive to produce. Plus, as we said, Americans draw more Americans than non-Americans, and so they have to draw from the pool of available Americans, like Ina/Zimmerman. Steven Cousins may have some help from being friends with Scott, but my guess is he's fairly inexpensive, has audience appeal, and is a good go-to guy for any ensemble they do.
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- Jun 27, 2003
Joesitz said:
Joe - one of Scott's best friends is Brian Orser, and he's had him in SOI since practically the beginning... Rob McCaul was also a member of SOI, and I believe Robin Cousins starred in SOI for a brief time when it was just starting out... I don't think Scott can be considered "anti-gay"
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- Jul 11, 2003
Whoops, thanks Toni for reminding me. I amend my thread here as Scott is NOT anti Russian and he is NOT anti gay. (and he is not my favorite skater.Tonichelle said:
)Joe
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- Mar 4, 2004
Scott is not perfect--and he has been known to say some dubious things. I am much fonder of his skating than of his commentating and he isn't my favorite skater either. (I am so happy that I have the Canadian version of Paul Wylie' 92 Olympic freeskate. Scott's commentary is not made for repetitive viewing.)
However, I do think that people jump on his statements and seem to miss that other skaters (EVEN Russian skaters) have also made bigoted and even untrue statements. Irina Rodnina just said in a interview that Randy Gardner had a nervous breakdown in 1980 at Lake Placid and scoffed at Tai and Randy's skating in general. Imagine the furor if Scott said Urmanov's groin injury was a nervous breakdown. Noone seemed disturbed by her comments at all.
Many skaters (foreign and gay) have said that Scott has been a support and good friend to them. Even Toller had good things to say about him in "Ice Cream" and Toller brings the snark everywhere ( I still think he was overly harsh and not exactly correct in his chapter on Dorothy Hamill). Brian Orser and Jozef Sabovcik both said he has been a good friend to them since amateur years. So-I think you can say Scott is not always tactful, but I don't think he is a bigot.
However, I do think that people jump on his statements and seem to miss that other skaters (EVEN Russian skaters) have also made bigoted and even untrue statements. Irina Rodnina just said in a interview that Randy Gardner had a nervous breakdown in 1980 at Lake Placid and scoffed at Tai and Randy's skating in general. Imagine the furor if Scott said Urmanov's groin injury was a nervous breakdown. Noone seemed disturbed by her comments at all.
Many skaters (foreign and gay) have said that Scott has been a support and good friend to them. Even Toller had good things to say about him in "Ice Cream" and Toller brings the snark everywhere ( I still think he was overly harsh and not exactly correct in his chapter on Dorothy Hamill). Brian Orser and Jozef Sabovcik both said he has been a good friend to them since amateur years. So-I think you can say Scott is not always tactful, but I don't think he is a bigot.
