Weir's image causing a ruckus at another site | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Weir's image causing a ruckus at another site

mike79

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
julietvalcouer said:
If that's the attitude people have, we owe Germany, Italy, and Japan WHOPPING huge apologies for World War II and the Nuremberg trials. Because hey, all countries do bad things. (Ask the Koreans or Chinese how they'd feel about Japan saying "Hey, everyone does it." Especially the Koreans. Just don't say I didn't warn you.) And neither the slave trade (which America hardly started as it didn't even exist) nor Japanese internment camps are equatable with what the Soviet Union did, before, during, and after Stalin. The tendency to say "oh, it was all Stalin and before and after him it was just a worker's paradise" is naive at best. Think that there's a moral equivalency if you want. Some of us know better.

And I'm surprised there isn't a rule at the Olympics about wearing official team clothing. It seems as though that could cause confusion in addition to political faux pas if someone started wearing team jackets from extant countries.

I understand the argument for him not wearing the jacket because it's the Olympics. But as for it being related to past atrocities that's probably looking into things more than is necessary. Not everything is political.

As for the slave trade not being started be the US you are right. The term slave has its roots in 'slav' relating to Slavic people. The Japanese camps were a pretty serious human rights infringement but it can be argued that many countries were doing the same thing. It may not have been right but it's what was going on at the time.

The US treatment of Natives, OTOH, was completely disgusting. The same is true for Canada. There is nothing that can be said to repair the damage done.

Yes it is possible to look at the USSR in light of how different leaders did things. Things in the USSR were never worse than when Stalin ruled. It does not belittle any atrocities committed under other Soviet leaders, but let's look at this realistically: the collectivization programs were Stalin's baby and this, combined with the Communist Party purges and Stalin basically losing his mind from paranoia, were the things that led to so many Soviet citizens' needless deaths. If Stalin had not come to power during the years after Lenin's death one can only guess as to where the USSR would have gone or what it would have become. This is not saying that Lenin was innocent of anything. It would, however, be interesting to see where things would have gone if his NEP would have continued, and how communism would have developed. Under the NEP things were looking up. The parallels between the NEP and Gorbachev's perestroika are fascinating. Perestroika unravelled in a different way, however, and it helped contribute to the USSR's demise.

No, there was not any kind of worker's paradise in the USSR. But to paint the USSR in bold strokes is making sweeping generalizations. No one is being naive. It's simply an interesting debate.

Since you seem to be interested in this topic let me recommend a book for you. It's called 'Execution by Hunger', written as a memoir by Miron Dolot about living in the USSR during the famines. It's completely absorbing and heartwrenching. I think you'll enjoy it. Cheers.
 

Lanie

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Yeah, Idle, I see loads of that too. It's pathetic and disgusting but I think it's mostly people who are too stupid to realize who those people are. :p The only thing that bugged me about Johnny wearing the CCCP jacket was that it's during the Olympics when he's representing the USA. Wear team stuff, please.
 

SusanBeth

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
Lanie said:
Yeah, Idle, I see loads of that too. It's pathetic and disgusting but I think it's mostly people who are too stupid to realize who those people are. :p The only thing that bugged me about Johnny wearing the CCCP jacket was that it's during the Olympics when he's representing the USA. Wear team stuff, please.

I think they are mainly worn by kids who do not place a great deal of philosophical importance on tshirt design. They are also worn by people who do not rush to condemn where no harm is meant.
 

orchid

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
SusanBeth said:
I think they are mainly worn by kids who do not place a great deal of philosophical importance on tshirt design. They are also worn by people who do not rush to condemn where no harm is meant.

And are worn by people who are stuningly ignorant of world history.....

Again, I say, Johnny is an idiot.
 

ladybug

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
The USA is a free country and Johnny can and Did wear the CCCP jacket at the Olympics practice without being told to remove it.

I would have been just as offended if he had worn any jacket with any other country name or logo on it to the Olympics. I wonder how China, Japan, Russia or Canada would have felt if their Olympians had worn a USA jacket. Forget the political implications, it was just poor taste and I feel it was done so he could be noticed. If he had put that much effort into skating a perfect free skate (which he is capable of doing), he probably would have been wearing a silver medal back to the US and doing Jay Leno interviews. Now that would have got him noticed.

Ladybug
 

Kasey

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
orchid said:
The point is that Johnny acquired the CCCP jacket before the games began.
Traditionally, the exchange of athletic attire begins at the closing ceremonies.

At least, publically, meaning he managed a Kodak moment before the games began wearing a Russian garment.

I think a poor choice of timing.

Not exactly sure what kind of "Timing" you were thinking of, but Johnny had that jacket and wore it at practice at Skate Canada last year. It wasn't just a 2-days before the Olympics thing.
 

Linny

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
It's for good luck

It was his good luck jacket... but since it didn't bring him good luck, perhaps he'll switch to a boa.
Linny
 

Ravyn Rant

Totally 80s Dance Party!
Medalist
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Kasey said:
Um, wow. Lot of....strong opinions. Keeping my mouth shut on what I think of most of those who posted.....

Kasey, for that website, the comments were pretty mild.
Rave
 

Serena

Rinkside
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
julietvalcouer said:
If that's the attitude people have, we owe Germany, Italy, and Japan WHOPPING huge apologies for World War II and the Nuremberg trials. Because hey, all countries do bad things. (Ask the Koreans or Chinese how they'd feel about Japan saying "Hey, everyone does it." Especially the Koreans. Just don't say I didn't warn you.) And neither the slave trade (which America hardly started as it didn't even exist) nor Japanese internment camps are equatable with what the Soviet Union did, before, during, and after Stalin. The tendency to say "oh, it was all Stalin and before and after him it was just a worker's paradise" is naive at best. Think that there's a moral equivalency if you want. Some of us know better.


I am completely disgusted by the fact that you consider the inhumanity of the slave trade (and the general treatment of blacks in the US in history) "not equatable" with what they did in the Soviet Union. They were enslaved, raped, killed, and treated like livestock.
 

cammie

Spectator
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
I thought the US was a free country?
No one here in Canada would object.
Weir could wear whatever he wants here.

What, now freedom means that you can do whatever you want without any repercussions?

It IS a free country -- He's free to wear what he wants, and we're free to call him an absolute moron for doing so. Freedom works both ways.
 
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AUT

Spectator
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about because it was

OBVIOUSLY A PUBLICITY WHORING STUNT by Mr Weir. And it worked beautifully. His name & face were all over the Olympic news outlets.
 

cell

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
All the hoopla because of one CCCP shirt? Is this the first time people have seen one of those? The PC uproar and the indignation over this are completely ridiculous over something that is obviously not meant to be as taken as seriously as some people are taking this.
 
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