Old Programs of Seasoned Competitors

The 2002 Worlds which Irina won her first gold, a judge said on TV that she marked Kwan down for not using new music.

The 2006 Worlds had many skaters returning to the tried and true notably Brian Joubert which brought him back to his successful French style and not his tried and failed Yagudin style. It worked well for him and I think he will be on the road to a 2010 favorite. Buttle, Weir, and who else went back to better days of music?
The many ladies, too.

Yet there were skaters who went on to use new music for this past season's competitions, e.g., Joannie, Kimmie, Chenjiang Li, and so many others.

I have mixed feelings about this. While I would give a bonus for new music, I would not take away from old music. I think this is a sport and one has to take charge of the nuances that make one a winner.

Do you have feelings about using familiar music time and again? I can see Brian taking the Matrix out of Mothballs for 2010.

Joe

It seemed to matter much more in the professional competitions. When Brian Boitano went back to "Music of the Night" about 10 years later, his scores were quite low.

Color commentators at these events would frequently observe that the skater was not "pushing" out of the comfort zone and trying something new. It seemed like every time, the skater was, indeed penalized for staying with "old faithful."

Going back maybe just one season is not so bad, if the skater realizes that the new material isn't going to work and does not have time to go back to the drawing board.

Choosing to go back for an entire season is another matter. For some reason, it just is not like a musician returning again and again to Beethoven's Sonata Pathetique.

AFAIK the rules do not penalize a skater for using old music or old program. There have been tons of examples of this.

M&D- Lieberstraum in 91 & 92; DonQ SP for 92 & 94.

Petrenko used same music three seasons in a row- leading upto the 92 Olys and won.

S&Z used Turandot 2 years in a row (2002 & 2003) and won.

S&P used Love Story in 2000 and 2002 and had great success with it in 2002.

Shizuka went back to Turandot music for the Olys but added new moves to make it COP friendly. It worked out great for her.

Irina used the same LP music in 2004 & 2005 and did great (of course she only skated at worlds and in no other competition in 2004).

Petrova-Tikhonov used Four seasons 3 times. Most recently they went back to that music and won bronze in Calgary. I wonder if they were penalized for using old music/program?

In dance we almost always see new music. Drobiazko-Vanagas placed 4th at the 2001 worlds when they went back to their old program. I believe they were penalized for it, but I don't know if ice dance rules dictate that. I do know that in dance the skaters have to come up with original moves. That is not the case with the other 3 disciplines.

I personally feel that skaters should not be allowed to use the same program again because it gives them an advantage over those using new music and program. Instead of rewarding skaters for using new music, I think it will be better to give a small deduction to skaters that use old music, unless at least half of their program is different from the old one. So skaters that want to go back to an old music they feel comfortable with will know that they are giving up something (a few points) for the privilege of feeling more confident. That is just how I feel though, and I don't see the rule changing.

If that judge gave Michelle lower marks for using an old program, she went against the rules.

Vash

One of the judges who was interviewed on TV after the pairs competition in SLC said he or she penalized S/P for reusing the same music. While it was against the rules, it happened in at least two publicly stated incidents, but under 6.0, a lot of decisions went into a single set of scores, none of which are transparent.

Pet/Tik have repeated several programs: in 2003 they gave up the beautiful Rachmaninoff Symphonic Variations program they skated at Euros, and went back to a revision of Chess (with new costumes that made her look like her beautiful, svelte self, not like the original black and white ones that made her look like a fire hydrant.) They repeated their Kalman program in 2004-5, and repeats hurt them in neither case. I think Pet/Tik would have scored higher in Calgary, if they hadn't been off the podium in Torino. I wish they had gone back to Four Seaons before the Olympics. Changing before Calgary was a good strategy, too late, in my opinion.

Arakawa's Turandot was reworked in 2004 from an earlier program, and then reworked again for Torino.

I think the issue of repeat programs is one of freshness. When the skaters rework programs, especially in back-to-back years, or skip years, I think, in general, this infuses them with new energy.

Joesitz said:

The 2002 Worlds which Irina won her first gold, a judge said on TV that she marked Kwan down for not using new music.

The 2006 Worlds had many skaters returning to the tried and true notably Brian Joubert which brought him back to his successful French style and not his tried and failed Yagudin style. It worked well for him and I think he will be on the road to a 2010 favorite. Buttle, Weir, and who else went back to better days of music?
The many ladies, too.

Yet there were skaters who went on to use new music for this past season's competitions, e.g., Joannie, Kimmie, Chenjiang Li, and so many others.

I have mixed feelings about this. While I would give a bonus for new music, I would not take away from old music. I think this is a sport and one has to take charge of the nuances that make one a winner.

Do you have feelings about using familiar music time and again? I can see Brian taking the Matrix out of Mothballs for 2010.

Joe

Click to expand...

I thought the Matirx was the first TT creation for Brian wasn't it?

Ant