Praising Kimmie

I'm not really worried about her "fan-base". I'm sure that will significantly increase from her most recent performances and on-camera exposure. A skater need not be from California or New York to be nationally popular.

Jill Trenary was from a small town in Minnesota and had a shining reputation among those who actually met her in person. Kimmie is gaining that reputation with the press and with people who meet her. Many skaters gain popularity that way regardless of what people perceive in her skating style itself. Quite often a skater's "personna reputation" will spill over to the spectators and TV viewers.

Those of us who saw her skate her Debussy and Ravel programs at 2005 Nationals know that she can skate softly and lyrically but we also know that under the new scoring system she had to first establish herself as a major power skater. Having done that in spectacular fashion, she can now work on blending more of what we saw in 2005 into a new program that will be a "vegetable soup" of both powerful and lovely elements.

I don't necessarily expect ANYTHING she does to bring you around to enjoying her skating, Red Dog, but to each his own.............

jsteam4501s said:

... the "Queen of Sheba" music was fine except for that "snake charmer" segment - you know, that "Bomba-bom-bom-bom tweedle-deedle-dee-dee-dee" and so-forth ...

Click to expand...

What was Lori Nichol thinking of? Oh well, it gave her a chance to throw in those "walk like an Egyptian" moves, LOL.

As far as PCS, I was most impressed by her exhibition skate. With fewer jumps she was able to concentrate more on her extention and finishing off her movements, especially her arms. I think she's on her way!

Gimmie Kimmie.

MM

jsteam4501s said:

I'm not really worried about her "fan-base". I'm sure that will significantly increase from her most recent performances and on-camera exposure. A skater need not be from California or New York to be nationally popular.

Jill Trenary was from a small town in Minnesota and had a shining reputation among those who actually met her in person. Kimmie is gaining that reputation with the press and with people who meet her. Many skaters gain popularity that way regardless of what people perceive in her skating style itself. Quite often a skater's "personna reputation" will spill over to the spectators and TV viewers.

Those of us who saw her skate her Debussy and Ravel programs at 2005 Nationals know that she can skate softly and lyrically but we also know that under the new scoring system she had to first establish herself as a major power skater. Having done that in spectacular fashion, she can now work on blending more of what we saw in 2005 into a new program that will be a "vegetable soup" of both powerful and lovely elements.

I don't necessarily expect ANYTHING she does to bring you around to enjoying her skating, Red Dog, but to each his own.............

Click to expand...

ITA, Jsteam, with both your posts on this page. I too saw Kimmie skate live last spring. Prior to that I my feelings about her skating were "com si, com sa"--but I'd only seen her a few times on TV. Seeing her skate live totally made me sit up and take notice. Live, I found her skating to look much more sophisticated than it does on TV. I think on TV you don't get the way her body relates to the space around her. Kimmie owns her space, which is a subtle concept to envision, but when you see it, the power is unmistakable. Great observations,,,,obviously, because I agree with them, LOL. Seriously, I love your insights.

****************
Mathman,
You asked me about Kimmie's exhib skate at Worlds and wouldn't it be great if she skated like that all the time. Well, not in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I thought Kimmie was gorgeous and the choreography was lovely. But a snoozer ballad version of "Over the Rainbow"--not for me, though I'm sure most people loved it. When I saw it a second time, I thought, "Why didn't 16-year-old Kimmie Meissner skate to 16-year-old Judy Garland's version?" I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I say go with the classic.

Kimmie herself was smooth, delicate, and sweet, just like the music. But ALL the time? Zzzzz. Nothing against Kimmie in that style, I just also enjoy seeing her skate in power mode, much of which we saw in her LP, despite the blah choreography.

Jsteam, just like Kat Witt, is right. If you've got the technique and the nerves to compete a clean SP and LP, the latter with 7 triples, then the artistic side can be taught, at least far more easily than the other way around. I just would like to see her continue to develop more than one style. She's an inexperienced natural at both lyricism and power. I say, how great would it be to see both in one program.

Besides, for me, the way someone skates and exhibition vs. a competition involves a whole different level of adrenaline. I'd miss that adrenaline in competition.

Let's just hope her hormones continue to be kind to Kimmie.

In the meantime, I highly recommend seeing Kimmie skate live with COI or next season in one of her competitions. I think she's worth it.

Rgirl

Mathman said:

Wouldn't that have been something? I wonder how it would have been scored against Arakawa's beautiful and mature, but technically unexceptional, skate.

Click to expand...

If Kimmie had landed the 3-3 combinations, chances are Arakawa would have included hers too. When Shizuka took the ice, the most important thing for her was to skate clean. She would have received higher PCS than Kimmie regardless.

Vash

Rgirl said:

"Why didn't 16-year-old Kimmie Meissner skate to 16-year-old Judy Garland's version?"

Click to expand...

Because that would have been so beautiful that our hearts would not have been able to bear it. :yes:

Vash01 said:

If Kimmie had landed the 3-3 combinations, chances are Arakawa would have included hers too. When Shizuka took the ice, the most important thing for her was to skate clean. She would have received higher PCS than Kimmie regardless.Vash

Click to expand...

ITA Vash - Shiz is a very seasoned skater and Kimmie is just becoming one.

However, Kimmie Meissner won the Worlds Championship 2006!! over and out.

Joe

Shiz is a very seasoned skater and Kimmie is just becoming one.

However, Kimmie Meissner won the Worlds Championship 2006!! over and out.

Click to expand...

That's a good way to sum up the season. :agree:

Vash01 said:

If Kimmie had landed the 3-3 combinations, chances are Arakawa would have included hers too. Vash

Click to expand...

Vash01, just a little reminder - Arakawa skated before Kimmie.

jsteam4501s said:

Vash01, just a little reminder - Arakawa skated before Kimmie.

Click to expand...

That's why woulda, shoulda, coulda arguments are pretty pointless if the threat of kimmie landing the 3/3s was big enough and a threat (ie if kimmie had been higher after the SP and laying down the calgary performance in practices) then maybe arakawa would have chosen to include at least one 3/3...all we know is what happened. Its as pointless as saying actually if Michelle had gone she'd have won.

In reality - the Olympic pressure got to kimmie as much as it did to everyone else and she didn't skate her best program. Kwan was injured and could not skate...end of.

Ant

antmanb said:

In reality - the Olympic pressure got to kimmie as much as it did to everyone else and she didn't skate her best program. Kwan was injured and could not skate...end of.Ant

Click to expand...

There is a difference between 'pressure' and 'nerves'. Jose Chouinard had a problem with nerves not pressure.

2002 Olys had several Lady skaters with pressure (Kwan and Slutskaya for the OGM and Sasha for a Tara repeat. Less pressure and nerves was Hughes - nothing to lose.

Even with pressure of defening his title, Lambiel for example, had to skate after a super skate of Joubert who had no pressure or nerves since he was already written off as a loser (seems the N.American boys were the tops at that time).

Back to Lambiel, he used the pressure to make him skate clean. Pressure is a two way street. One will skate poorly (Chouinard) or better (Lambiel).

Joe

Joesitz said:

There is a difference between 'pressure' and 'nerves'. Jose Chouinard had a problem with nerves not pressure.


Joe

Click to expand...

There is a difference between pressure and nerves, but i woul dhave said that pressure leads to nerves. Its how the skaters handle that nervous energy that makes or breaks the skater.

Ant

antmanb said:

There is a difference between pressure and nerves, but i woul dhave said that pressure leads to nerves. Its how the skaters handle that nervous energy that makes or breaks the skater.

Ant

Click to expand...

exactly. It's not the pressure or nerves that get you (it's normal and happens to everyone) but how you deal with it that does.

Mathman said:

Wouldn't that have been something? I wonder how it would have been scored against Arakawa's beautiful and mature, but technically unexceptional, skate.

Click to expand...

I'm going to have to disagree with you labelling her performance "technically unexceptional". She may have doubled a couple jumps but every single one was PERFECTLY landed. There wasn't a single bobble anywhere; the control she exhibited is among the best ever seen. The hardest triples were there as well - 2 Lutz's and a Flip, and they had excellent height.

Also, let us not forget that Spins and Spirals are part of the technical component. Arakawa's change-of-edge, raised-leg Spiral was one of the most breathtaking to ever be performed and her final step sequence was a beauty. Kimmie's exertions in these areas are forgettable and she even stepped out at the end of one of her spins (that should have gotten a -1 GOE for sure).

Overall I would only rate Kimmie's technical program 2-3 points higher than what Arakawa did at the Olympics. Her jumping program was superior but Arakawa did vastly better with other moves. When you take into account the Program scores I believe Arakawa easily would have deserved to win. Kimmie was ridiculously overrated with her Worlds PCS total; I would put Arakawa's program 10 points ahead on that mark! Which would equal out to a 7-8 point victory.

You made some excellent points, Z. I think I am still stuck in the 6.0 mode of thinking, where technical means jumps and everything else is on the second mark.

Welcome to the forum. Post often, post long!

Mathman

(PS. Off topic, but do you mind if I ask you a personal question? Were you on AI?)

Good point Zuranthium - but Ladies with 3x3s and Gentlemen with Quads will definitely get undeserved high PCS scores (in many cases). That's the way it is in Skateland.

Joe