Walley Jumps?

gio · May 11, 2006

antmanb said:
Since its the off season - any other jumps people would like to see the skaters exploring?
Ant

I'm not a skater (ok, I can do the basic things on ice), so this is a question for the experts. With two edges, two rotations (natural and counter), two take-offs (forward and backward) and with toe assist or no toe assist, why there are just six major jumps that are done with more than one revolution? With all this combinations we can list 12 jumps. Is it possible to do the other jumps with more revolutions? Why we don't see a toeless lutz or inside axel? Why aren't all named?

BO natural rotation, no toe assist = loop
BO natural rotation, toe = toe loop
BI natural rotation, no toe = salchow
BI natural rotation, toe = flip
BO counter rotation, no toe = toeless lutz ?
BO counter rotation, toe = lutz
BI counter rotation, no toe assist = walley
BI counter rotation, toe assist = toe walley
FO natural rotation = axel
FI natural rotation = inside axel ?
FO counter rotation = ???
FI counter rotation = ???

Tonichelle · May 11, 2006

Didn't Scott Hamilton do multiple rotation Walley's??? I guess I'll go read his book again and see...

Joesitz (RIP) · May 11, 2006

Toni - I was away most of Scott's competitions and didn't see more than the Olys but I believe if anyone did do a triple walley, it would be him. Not because of the difficulty but because he, imo, was a methodical skater.

gio - So many possibilities for jumps in figure skating, and they are not listed or executed.

There are no jumps landed on the forward outside or inside edges except those that land in a 'bunny hop' type of finish, e.g. split jumps, falling leafs. If they were popular, a forward loop jump, e.g, (taking off and landing on the forward edge) there would have to be an emergency ambulance at the arena (rink).

There are forward outside and inside axels landing on opposite feet or on same feet but they seem to have gone away with the walley. the Free Skate has become quite RESTRICTED.

Joe

Tonichelle · May 11, 2006

Joe - is it a rule that they can't or just that the skaters would rather do the jumps they know will get points???

Can you explain the restricted comment? I'm really curious as I don't have the paitence to read through the the ISU book of millions of obscure rules lol

Ladskater · May 11, 2006

IDLERACER said:
I have never seen anybody execute a Walley with more than one rotation (if there is such a thing). It's also the only jump that is commonly done in both directions. Brian Orser often does a counterclockwise one, followed by a clockwise one. I've seen Michael Weiss and Sarah Hughes do this as well.

The Walley is not an easy jump to execute at least the unasisted version - most skaters prefer the toe Walley because they get a little more leverage. To do the unasisted Walley a skater must really have good balance, leg strength (like Elvis for example) and good timing. It's a beauty when well executed.

Perry · May 11, 2006

"Toe walley" now has come to mean any toe loop done from a mowhawk instead of a three-turn. In the traditional meaning it had to be done from the inside edge, but no one does that anymore.

I think I remember my coach telling me about some man that skated around the same time she did or before (so early 70s) that did double walleys pretty consistently. I don't remember who it was, though.

And walleys are hard jumps (I was 11 when I learned them, and had all my doubles and double-doubles clean), but once you get them, you never, ever miss. I've fallen on walleys maybe twice since I learned them (of course, I fell enough times learning them to makeup for it!). Doing a lot in a row though (5 or more) is amazingly difficult on your legs, though.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 11, 2006

Tonichelle said:
Joe - is it a rule that they can't or just that the skaters would rather do the jumps they know will get points???

Can you explain the restricted comment? I'm really curious as I don't have the paitence to read through the the ISU book of millions of obscure rules lol

I used the term Restricted to explain the rule. Apparently, when the CoP listed the available jumps as elements qualified for comppetitions, the Walley did not make the list except as a step in footwork. You figure.

So look forward to it in a few competitors footwork.

Joe

CDMM1991 · May 11, 2006

Out here a walley used to be equal to a single axel in terms of difficulty, as you could achieve a certain test level if you did either (with other things of course).

antmanb · May 12, 2006

gio said:
I'm not a skater (ok, I can do the basic things on ice), so this is a question for the experts. With two edges, two rotations (natural and counter), two take-offs (forward and backward) and with toe assist or no toe assist, why there are just six major jumps that are done with more than one revolution? With all this combinations we can list 12 jumps. Is it possible to do the other jumps with more revolutions? Why we don't see a toeless lutz or inside axel? Why aren't all named?

BO natural rotation, no toe assist = loop
BO natural rotation, toe = toe loop
BI natural rotation, no toe = salchow
BI natural rotation, toe = flip
BO counter rotation, no toe = toeless lutz ?
BO counter rotation, toe = lutz
BI counter rotation, no toe assist = walley
BI counter rotation, toe assist = toe walley
FO natural rotation = axel
FI natural rotation = inside axel ?
FO counter rotation = ???
FI counter rotation = ???

I don't think the last two jump are physically possible because the swinging through of your free leg in order to get the height on the jump would block your rotation. That's why i think the inside axel would be pretty much impossible as mutli revolution jump.

Ant

gkelly · May 12, 2006

antmanb said:
That's why i think the inside axel would be pretty much impossible as mutli revolution jump.
Ant

I've seen video of it performed as a double twice -- by Elvis Stojko at 1993 Worlds, and by Julie Lynn Holmes at 1969 Worlds IIRC. Neither was a very high-quality jump, Stojko's had a two-footed takeoff (kind of from RFI and LBI at the same time).

Double walley I've seen only from Colin Vanderveen at 1993 US Nationals. I've heard that Jozef Sabovcik used to do them too, but maybe only in practice.

The singles count as transitions under the new system. If the doubles were to become more common, then I expect they would get added to the scale of values. These doubles appear to be more difficult than most of the usual triples. And of course since they have no point value at this point, there's no incentive for a skater to learn them or put them in a program.

Walley Jumps?

gio

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Joesitz (RIP)

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

Perry

Joesitz (RIP)

CDMM1991

antmanb

gkelly

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