New Topic of Discussion Re: MK

Pretty much every figure skater participates in the dance discipline even if they compete as a single skater - like Michelle Kwan, for example. I was just looking at some interesting news about ice dance and was wondering does anyone know if Michelle has passed all her dance levels? It would be interesting to see Michelle performing the Rocker Foxtrot or the Paso Doble or the Westminster waltz for examples.

Ice dance is quite a challenge for any skater. It's always fun to watch skaters who don't necessarily compete in ice dance practice their dance skills - especially a seasoned competitor like Michelle. It would be interesting to know how far she got in ice dance. Of course, figures are not such a big part of skating anymore, but it would also be interesting to know if Michelle has ever traced figures at 6:00am (like some of us!!!)

I chose Mk for this topic because I know she has such a huge fan base here and the response will be great.

Have fun!!!!

Wow, I guess I tossed my Skating magazine collection from the early '90s too soon. That's the only place we could look it up easily, I think.

Michelle probably did do patch at 6:00. For a while after figures were eliminated at the international level, they were still a big part of the USFSA test structure. She may have passed up through novice or junior figures.

I remember when this type of topic was brought up on another forum and i'm fairly sure a couple of very knowledgeable posters explained that Michelle must have passed (i think) the first three or four figures tests in order to be able to test novice or junior so that she could compete at nationals in either novice or junior.

Maybe someone with a greater knowledge of the history of figures going from the US test structure and MITF coming in will be able to trace the timeline.

Was Michelle's first senior year at Nationals 1994 or was it 1993?

Then work out when she was in juniors and novice.

If Figures were abolished from international competition in what 1991/1992 then Michelle must have tested a fair amount in figures.

As to dance, i'm not sure that many singles skaters actually test the dances even if they do work on some of them to help their skating skills. I think i have heard a few stories of senior level singles skaters who, for whatever reason, switch to dance and spend an entire day tesing most of the dances up through to the senior level in order to compete.

Ant

antmanb said:

As to dance, i'm not sure that many singles skaters actually test the dances even if they do work on some of them to help their skating skills. I think i have heard a few stories of senior level singles skaters who, for whatever reason, switch to dance and spend an entire day tesing most of the dances up through to the senior level in order to compete.Ant

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I think single skaters who test for dance are probably interested in getting a judgeship.I think multiple test passing makes for a better resume when it comes to getting judgeships. Just a thought.

btw - Do many top US skaters become judges?

Joe

Joesitz said:

I think single skaters who test for dance are probably interested in getting a judgeship.I think multiple test passing makes for a better resume when it comes to getting judgeships. Just a thought.

btw - Do many top US skaters become judges?

Joe

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I don't know about US skaters but thinking internatioanlly Jan Hoffman is now a judge in addition to being world champion.

I suspect the larger number of singles skaters who test in dance also do it in order to get their coaching qualifications in dance as well so that they can teach both singles and dance and stand more chance of earning a living by being able to teach both.

Ant

I'm not necessarily the biggest Michelle Kwan fan, but I think she would be an awesome ice dancer!

When you go for your dance tests, do you have to have a partner?

In beginning dance classes, I assume there are many more girls than boys. Do the girls skate with each other (like the sock hops of my high school days, LOL, where the boys were too shy to ask anyone to dance). Do they practice steps by themselves?

antmanb said:

... .

Was Michelle's first senior year at Nationals 1994 or was it 1993?

Then work out when she was in juniors and novice.

If Figures were abolished from international competition in what 1991/1992 then Michelle must have tested a fair amount in figures.
...
Ant

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I think that Michelle was at Jr. Nats in '92 and made her senior Nat debut in '93, so I believe she probably did get tested in figures.

Aren't some figures still done today, as parts of tests?

Joesitz said:

I think single skaters who test for dance are probably interested in getting a judgeship.I think multiple test passing makes for a better resume when it comes to getting judgeships. Just a thought.

btw - Do many top US skaters become judges?

Joe

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Most single skaters - at least in my day (a hundred years ago!!) took all their levels which included ice dance from preliminary to gold and all their figures in order to coach or judge. Even skaters like Karen Magnussen worked on their dances and of course figures were a main part of skating then. Karen now teaches in North Vancouver - her home town.

Mathman said:

When you go for your dance tests, do you have to have a partner?

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I don't know about North America but in the UK your coach can take you through the tests. The trouble i think you get to is when you hit the international level dances - unless you are lucky enough to get one of the elite skaters to partner you in the test, there is often e.g. a lack of men who can do those dances in order to partner a lady wanting to take the tests.

Ant

evenstar said:

Aren't some figures still done today, as parts of tests?

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No all of the figures have been replaced by MITF. Though i thought, certainly until recently that you could still test figures? I might be wrong. There are a lot of coaches out there who are avid fancs of figures and are still very happy to teach them...my coach is not one of them!!

Ant

Mathman said:

When you go for your dance tests, do you have to have a partner?

In beginning dance classes, I assume there are many more girls than boys. Do the girls skate with each other (like the sock hops of my high school days, LOL, where the boys were too shy to ask anyone to dance). Do they practice steps by themselves?

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in Scott Hamilton's book he talks in length about his turn in ice dance and how he helped many girls test up to the next level because there were few boys

so yes and no. You need a second person, but you don't have to be "partners" on the ice

Michelle has mentioned in articles and her book that she did practice figures. I think she is the last generation to do so. I remember an article several years back where she complained about how young skaters don't know their edges as a result of the abolishment of figures.

I have "Skating" all the way back to the "70's!

In the US, Skaters can still test figures, although it is getting harder to find a coach to teach them, the ice to practice them on, or the judges to judge them.

As to wheather many US singles skaters also take dance: from my experience, I'd say about 1/3. Some coaches encourage their students to take dance. Some parents make their kids dance, but I don't know too many (young) singles skaters who take dance of their own volition.

Judging appointments: I think more singles skaters test dance because of what it will do for their coaching credentials, coaches get paid-judges don't. I know that USFS is trying to make it easier for skaters to become judges. I can't remember when, but sometime in the past 10 years USFS created a fast track to judging appointments for skaters depending on their competitive and test history.

MM, compulsory dance tests in the US can be taken standard, solo, adult (21 or over) or masters (50 or over). Standard requires the dance to be skated with a partner for pre-preliminary through pre-silver. For silver on up the tester must skate the dance both with a partner and solo. Adult and Masters never have to solo. Partners can be same gender only if the partner is the testers coach.

Solo track dance tests don't carry the same distinction because it is easier to pass these tests.

If a dance couple wants to compete, they have to have passed the appropriate compulsory dances for the level as well as the appropriate FREE DANCE test.

Evenstar, the only true figure that is part of a MIF test is the waltz eight in pre-preliminary in which the primary focus is edge quality.

As far as the complaint that young skaters who have never learned figures not knowing their edges:

There may have been a ghange over period when some of the emphasis on proper edging and turns got a little lost, but it is pretty hard to get past the second MIF test (preliminary) without a basic understanding of proper edges.

Thanks, Nthuz.

Easier without a partner?

nthuz said:

I have "Skating" all the way back to the "70's!

Standard requires the dance to be skated with a partner for pre-preliminary through pre-silver. For silver on up the tester must skate the dance both with a partner and solo. Adult and Masters never have to solo.

Solo track dance tests don't carry the same distinction because it is easier to pass these tests.

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So, if it's easier to pass the tests solo, why do skaters who test silver and beyond have to test both ways, while the lower levels of the Standard track skate only with a partner?

(Are you game to look up all Michelle's testing in Skating?!?)

Perhaps saying that it is easier to pass solo is not the best choice of words.

Some might say that it is easier to skate a dance solo, however, most will say the opposite. In any case, a dance is supposed to be two people skating together.

FOR STANDARD: When testing the low dances, sakters need only dance with a partner. The judge can tell if the tester knows the dance and is skating it correctly. But the tester might not be so great in areas like timing, for instance, and may be relying heavily on the partner. So at Silver (which btw is considered a bit of a turning point in the levels), he/she must also solo the dance to prove he/she can do it both alone and with a partner. Having to skate the dance twice for the judges is harder than skating it just once with or without a partner.

Now, for SOLO: The tester need only skate the dance alone and must meet the same passing average as those on the standard track to pass. But this tester will never have to put a dance on the ice twice for the judges to scrutinize. In addition, he/she doesn't have to go through the rigamarole of finding a partner, scheduling practice time etc.

If one wishes to compete, the tests must be taken standard.

I did go upstairs to dig through my SKATING mags, however I couldn't get to them! If I ever decide to clean out the attic, I'll let you know!

That makes sense about heavy reliance on a partner. Thanks for clarifying!