Sasha Since 1999?

MKFSfan · Jun 18, 2006

I think Sasha had the misfortune of coming up in a time when the top skaters were known largely for their consistency in landing jumps. Also, under 6.0, LP's were about what you did do, and not a sum of all the parts ala COP, so mistakes were more glaring. I agree, Sasha is NOT as bad competitively as some make her out to be-she had that awful showing in the 2001 SA, and Jr Worlds 2000, but otherwise, her programs weren't a complete mess, a couple mistakes, but not melt-downs like some seem to think.

The problem for me watching Sasha, is she seems too careful in presenting her programs, like she's thinking,"Gotta stay in the moment, can't think ahead, or I'll fall." and that gets her every time-perfect example is her 2004 Worlds LP. Sometimes she lets go and is really into her program/music-2003 Campbell's and many SP's. I think she'd have more fun headling SOI, not saying I think/wish she'd retire, but that I think we'd see a brand new Sasha, well, more shades of "old" Sasha, much like the December 2005 Marshall's thing. I dunno...as beautiful as it was, R&J and (Robin Lake) seemed forced to me, like she was so careful, trying to fit into the pretty, perfect little ballerina role, while I LOVED Dark Eyes, DROMP, and Mal, she seemd more "Sasha", fiery and had attack.

dancindiva03 · Jun 18, 2006

soogar said:
I also think Sasha is one of the most emotional skaters I have ever seen. You can see everything on her face when she competes. Her vulnerability, disappointment, happiness and insecurity all registers on her face during her programs. She is so emotionally invested in everything that happens on the ice from her jumps and her wow moves. I really don't think that she is capable of just blocking everything out and just skating like a robot. She's not that kind of person.

My problem with Sasha's "emotion" when she skates is that what we see are her feelings about how she's performing, not the emotion of the music she's skating to. I honestly say that I hanve never felt that she has truly expressed her music, its just all about HER.

As for the original topic, I don't think she's improved much at all since her senior debut. Her jumps have not gotten any more consistant, and have gotten a lot lower than they used to be. Some of her spin positions have improved (her back isn't as hunched on the Beaver Cleaver spin, for example), but this season her spins were noticeably slower than in the past. She's lost whatever spark or excitement she had back in '99.

MKFSfan · Jun 18, 2006

Sasha used to do a front catch and now does the side-catch, which may be why she no longer hunches her back. I think her spins were much slower this year thanks to changes of edges and more positions in the spin. Again, COP...The only thing that surprised me was she got dinged a few times for not having the maximum revelution on some spins, but I think she probably made up for them in +GOE's. Anyway, I think her spins improved in that she's MUCH more centered and she enters/exits them smoother.

anniemg · Jun 19, 2006

MKFSfan said:
The problem for me watching Sasha, is she seems too careful in presenting her programs, like she's thinking,"Gotta stay in the moment, can't think ahead, or I'll fall." and that gets her every time-perfect example is her 2004 Worlds LP. Sometimes she lets go and is really into her program/music-2003 Campbell's and many SP's. I think she'd have more fun headling SOI, not saying I think/wish she'd retire, but that I think we'd see a brand new Sasha, well, more shades of "old" Sasha, much like the December 2005 Marshall's thing. I dunno...as beautiful as it was, R&J and (Robin Lake) seemed forced to me, like she was so careful, trying to fit into the pretty, perfect little ballerina role, while I LOVED Dark Eyes, DROMP, and Mal, she seemd more "Sasha", fiery and had attack.

Ditto. She can be so amazing when she lets go, and she has given glimpses of that in a lot of cases, mostly, as you said, sps, but also her Olympic LP after the fall! Funny, the two other programs I can think of is the 2003 Sears Open(exhibition) and the 200(or is it 6) Marshalls where she did R&J with David Wilson's choreography. Both of them not competitions. I htink that she has a mental block that prevents her from relaxing on her LPs. She can be expressive and she can have attack, because she has prooved it. But never in her LP. What a shame really!

Jumps are jumps, ice is slippery, you fall. But the passion, the 'attack', that's not something that has do with luck or technique. It's always there, and it makes a difference. Sasha should use it every time, because that's what makes her unique. And she doesnt......

MKFSfan · Jun 19, 2006

anniemg said:
Jumps are jumps, ice is slippery, you fall. But the passion, the 'attack', that's not something that has do with luck or technique. It's always there, and it makes a difference. Sasha should use it every time, because that's what makes her unique. And she doesnt......

Very true! And that's how I feel. Michelle won my heart because she always seems so "in the moment" and can give performances from the heart. It doesn't have to be the most passionate or expressive skate, or an in your face program, but I have to believe it, believe in the skater. That's what gets me every time. Sasha's exhibition to R&J, IMO, was the most expressive vehicle for her. I know it sounds mean, but I think after some of her disappointing losses (Nats. 2004, Worlds 2003-04) watching her skate to R&J made it so much more haunting and touching, like she drew her energy from her sorrow of not winning. I loved Mal and Dark Eyes, too-they allowed her to be fiesty and playful, and in that, she had more attack, personality. I don't know why, but I didn't enjoy the Olympics LP as much as many have, maybe it was the disappointment that distracted me from getting into her program, and the fact she had other mistakes after the 1st two jumps. I think in a way, it goes with Michelle's Schez-they both were obviously disappointed, but gutted out the rest of their program with much more freedom. However, I wouldn't list that LP among Michelle's triumphant moments.

But I agree that Sasha's best latest version of R&J was the Dec. Marshall's Fest. I was thinking,"Wow, this program is going somewhere!" but then the next 4 times she'd skate to it, she never lived up to that performance, for me.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 19, 2006

soogar said:
I've been watching a lot of Sasha programs on youtube. One thing that struck me is that she is *not* as bad a competitor as everyone makes her out to be.

Whos is 'everyone'?

Joe

Mathman · Jun 19, 2006

Joesitz said:
Who is 'everyone'?

Indeed. One thing to bear in mind, Sasha hasn't missed a podium since 2003 Worlds. Can any other skater make that claim?

Not Michelle, not Irina , not Shizuka, not Fumie, not Ando, Sokolova, Meissner,...

In ladies figure skating Sasha is the very model of consistency and excellence, compared to these off-again on-agains!

Kwanford Wife · Jun 19, 2006

My take on the whole Sasha issue isn't so much that she hasn't improved since '99, because I do believe she has, espcially in regards to overall skating skills like edging... but that she came up in a time where ~
1. Michelle & Irina were simply dominate.
2. DivaKwara's flashes of pure brillance were unmatched.
3. Sarah was the lucky recipeint of the skategods favor.

Throw in Fumie's clutch ability and Sasha's nerves simply couldn't hold it together.

She reminds me a phrase I heard about a race horse somewhere long ago "the breedings there but no stamina."

She's had a great competitive career and will continue to reap the benefits of her talent. Its unfortunate that she hasn't more major titles to her resume, but that's the way it goes in sports. What can you do?

jesslily · Jun 19, 2006

Sasha's technique did not improve over the years. Acturally they went down the hill.
2000's national she had her best performance, and during 2002 she did fairly well too. Since then her jumps have been getting smaller and twistier. She did get some new sparks when she just switched to each coach. But after that exciting first season with each coach, Sasha seem lost the excitement when she prepared for 2nd season with each coach.
I don't feel she shouldn't switch coaches... this sport is very demanding to your body and mind...nobody can maintain the spark all the time...Now Sasha has other interests to persue...let her do whatever she loves to do...

R.D. · Jun 19, 2006

This is how I see it: she's definitely one of a kind and it shows in the results- even with falls she's had very consistent results. I think because she's been IN POSITION to win many times- Nats 04, Olys 06 and Worlds 06 immediately come to mind- and yet its her falters in the LP that keep her off that top step. She's disappointed, and many fans are disappointed as well. It's not that she's a second- or third-place skater on her best night- it's coming so close and not being able to finish. In Game 3 of the NBA finals this year, the Mavericks controlled most of the game and had a 13 point lead halfway into the fourth quarter. But the Heat, led by Dwyane Wade, managed to come back and win- and it's one of the biggest Finals comebacks ever. They stepped up at the critical point. You can come as close as you want but if you can't finish, it means nothing.

Mathman · Jun 19, 2006

Red, so how did you like last night's game?

Kwanford Wife · Jun 19, 2006

Red Dog said:
This is how I see it: They stepped up at the critical point. You can come as close as you want but if you can't finish, it means nothing.

Best way to define Sasha & Dallas yet... gread job Red Dog :bow:

Mathman · Jun 19, 2006

Kwanford Wife said:
My take on the whole Sasha issue isn't so much that she hasn't improved since '99, because I do believe she has, espcially in regards to overall skating skills like edging... but that she came up in a time where...

2. DivaKwara's flashes of pure brillance were unmatched.

That is so true. In Arakawa's decade-long career as a senior skater she won exactly three international events: 2004 Worlds, 2004 NHK Trophy and the 2006 Olympics. In her three recent World Championships she went 8th, 1st and 9th. At Japanese Nationals since 2000 she placed 6th, 5th, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 3rd.

Talk about inconsistency!

In contrast, Sasha has won 7 major international competitions, plus U.S. Nationals, since 2001.

And yet -- right performance at the right time -- Shizuka knocked Sasha down to silver at both Worlds and Olys.

BTW, Sarah Hughes also won three events in her career: the 1999 Vienna Cup, 2001 Skate Canada, and -- let's see, I think there was one more.

Mathman · Jun 19, 2006

Red Dog said:
You can come as close as you want but if you can't finish, it means nothing.

I disagree. In the first place, there's always games 6 and 7.

Plus, win or lose, you are still the same person. In the long run, it doesn't really mean much whether you made that free throw and won a blue ribbon or not.

MKFSfan · Jun 19, 2006

Mathman said:
I disagree. In the first place, there's always games 6 and 7.

Plus, win or lose, you are still the same person. In the long run, it doesn't really mean much whether you made that free throw and won a blue ribbon or not.

Very true. I have no problems saying Sasha's a brilliant skater or does this and that wonderfully. I think saying she's "technically the greatest" or "has the most raw talent ever" is misleading. Having unlimited grace and fleixbility, wonderful spins does not make someone the best ever. If she combined that with superior jmping technique, and by that I mean a consistent 3/3, 7 triple programs, hard combos, quad or 3axle and tons of connecting moves, then I will believe she's got all the tools to be the best skater on paper.

To me, a champion combines their skills (in skating that means artistry and technical ability) with nerves of steel and rises to the occasion, thrives on competition, brings their "A" game. As much as I love Shiz and I'm thrilled she won OG, how does that specific performance rate amongst all the great performances by a lady skater in the past 10 years? Even her 2004 Worlds was (IMO) more impressive and worth raving over. BUT that doesn't discount the fact that on that particular night, the "best skater ever" and the favorite could not match what she did. To me, Olympics 1998 was a great competition for the ladies, even if I don't like the outcome

p ), or even many of the Worlds with Michelle VS Maria/Irina, with my fave WC ever being the matchup of Michelle VS LuLu. I love that Michelle won many Championship titles with strong programs against stiff competitions. So, to hear people say it's unfortunate Sasha doesn't a major title (or that she won Nats. due to lack of real competiton ) since she's such a great skater in BS. She is a GREAT skater. She has many wonderful qualities. She has yet to deliver when it counts.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 19, 2006

Mathman - I am all on edge with the Mets doing so well this season. For the past 5 or so years, they have started out like gangbusters and then faltered by mid June. Not so this season!!! I will continue to twitter until they make the playoffs and if that happens, I'll have a heart attack for the first Series game.

Now Sasha, is always something special except for the big prize. I predicted her gold in the 2002 Olys. Lost 5 bucks. Nobody won because nobody picked Sarah. Prize was held over till the next Worlds and an Irina fan won the money.

This really to me was the year of Sasha. I would like her to win Worlds but it will not be as easy as it was in 2006, and this I believe would be the same with 2 clean skates! But I can change as the season progresses.

Joe

Mathman · Jun 19, 2006

Joesitz said:
Mathman - I am all on edge with the Mets doing so well this season... 2 clean skates!

You mean the Tigers! :rock:

They have already won more games this season (46) than they won in all of 2003 (43-119).

(The Pistons did a Sasha in the playoffs, but just wait till next year!)

Joesitz (RIP) · Jun 19, 2006

Maybe it will be a Detroit/New York series (and without the Yankees.)

MKFSfan · Jun 19, 2006

Hmmm...I'm hoping for another Subway Series, especially if it goes the way 2000 went!!! :clap:

R.D. · Jun 19, 2006

Mathman said:
Red, so how did you like last night's game?

Awesome. A real thriller. They are re-showing it on ESPN classic right now BTW.

Sasha Since 1999?

MKFSfan

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

MKFSfan

anniemg

MKFSfan

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Kwanford Wife

jesslily

R.D.

Mathman

Kwanford Wife

Mathman

Mathman

MKFSfan

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

MKFSfan

R.D.

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