Layback spins | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Layback spins

TangyTart

Spectator
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
I was looking at the COP guide on the isu.org website and there is something called a flying layback spin. What exactly is this and do any skaters do it? Also, please forgive my ignorance but what is the "Sasha curl" and the "Sasha Spin?"
 

rjulie510

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 30, 2003
TangyTart said:
I was looking at the COP guide on the isu.org website and there is something called a flying layback spin. What exactly is this and do any skaters do it? Also, please forgive my ignorance but what is the "Sasha curl" and the "Sasha Spin?"

I believe a female Korean junior skater last season (NOT Yu-Na Kim) did flying layback spin. (Her name escapes me at the moment. Bit-Na? Can't remember, sorry.) She flies just like regular flying camel, but she lands in upright position with her free leg bent like layback. Then she lowers her back, and does layback spin. It's very cool but according to last CoP it was rewarded at the same level as flying camel spin.

Sasha curl is where a skater puts free leg bent and up, then lays her back and extends her arms.
http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/2000nationals/short/00nscohenjensen3.jpg
http://www.sashafans.com/media/gallery/1998nationals/long/adams-1.jpg
Kristi Yamaguchi also did this element in her competitive programs.

Sasha Spin? Which one? Beaver Cleaver, aka I-Spin and front catch spin? Or her layback spin? Her classic position is unique because she gets extreme back arch, making hers stand out. (Only pet peeve would be it takes her few rotations to get to that position.) Her layback spin is spectacular, but I didin't like catchfoot and biellman variation she added to it. (Gotta blame CoP, she just wanted more points.)
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
When Sasha first made her debut, I think to generate interest and excitement in a previously unknown skater, Nicks encouraged all this naming elements after Sasha. There was an article prior to 2000 Nationals in which they discuss Sasha coming up with "new" elements.

The "Sasha Curl"-NNN used to do one too, way back in 1999 or so. I think Kristi made it popular, as a attitude position, then NNN and Sasha took it further, with more flexibility.

I'm pretty sure Sasha and Nicks named the I-spin/side catch foot spin that Sasha does in just about every program, the "Sasha spin" but there have been other skaters to do this before her. The fans nicknamed it the "Beaver Cleaver."

Other names that Sasha/Nicks gave elements is the "Sasha Spiral''-the Maribel Vinson Owen spiral aka the fan spiral. And the "Sasha Skid"- when she goes from a fan spiral to a catch foot and changes direction. I have no idea if anyone did that particular variation before Sasha, but others have done spiral slide moves where they change direction and keep on traveling. Sasha's became known as a "skid" because like the hockey move, she changes direction and basically comes to a stop.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
MKFSfan said:
Other names that Sasha/Nicks gave elements is the "Sasha Spiral''-the Maribel Vinson Owen spiral aka the fan spiral. And the "Sasha Skid"- when she goes from a fan spiral to a catch foot and changes direction. I have no idea if anyone did that particular variation before Sasha, but others have done spiral slide moves where they change direction and keep on traveling. Sasha's became known as a "skid" because like the hockey move, she changes direction and basically comes to a stop.

I believe the "Sasha Skid" at the time it was named was a normal skid spiral and people mocked the naming of it after Sasha since at the time the edges into and out of it were not very strong and usually it ground to pretty much a halt. The one person who does/did the same version as the one named by camp Sasha but extremely well was Robin Cousins.

Ant
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
I think Cousins, Oksana and many others, did the slide move by using a more abrasque type spiral, even more so, in a camel position. Mao included a slide move in a Y-spiral position, traveled backwards, changes to travel forwards. Under COP, skater must hole spiral position for 3 seconds, which is why Sasha doesn't include the skid any longer in her spiral sequence, the forward change position isn't held long enough.

In the early days of Kristi, Karyn, Midori, etc. you saw them sort of swing around in a camel position, changing directions with great edging work. I'm not sure if this was considered slide move since the free leg, while didn't touch the ice, would swing around. Pretty cool to watch!
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
MKFSfan said:
I think Cousins, Oksana and many others, did the slide move by using a more abrasque type spiral, even more so, in a camel position. Mao included a slide move in a Y-spiral position, traveled backwards, changes to travel forwards. Under COP, skater must hole spiral position for 3 seconds, which is why Sasha doesn't include the skid any longer in her spiral sequence, the forward change position isn't held long enough.

In the early days of Kristi, Karyn, Midori, etc. you saw them sort of swing around in a camel position, changing directions with great edging work. I'm not sure if this was considered slide move since the free leg, while didn't touch the ice, would swing around. Pretty cool to watch!

I can't vouch for how the others did it but Robin would go into it with tremendous speed start the turn and hold the position so that he'd skid the blade and start slowing down but then finish the turn and have enough speed to come out of the it holding the same position.

Ant
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
antmanb said:
I can't vouch for how the others did it but Robin would go into it with tremendous speed start the turn and hold the position so that he'd skid the blade and start slowing down but then finish the turn and have enough speed to come out of the it holding the same position.

Ant

Right. It was really amazing to see! What I mean about being different is they do the slide/skid in different positions, and I'm not sure anyone's done the variations Sasha uses before.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
MKFSfan said:
I'm pretty sure Sasha and Nicks named the I-spin/side catch foot spin that Sasha does in just about every program, the "Sasha spin" but there have been other skaters to do this before her. The fans nicknamed it the "Beaver Cleaver."
Did you know that the term "Beaver Cleaver" for Sasha's I-spin was invented right here on Golden Skate?

There was a contest to name it, initiated and won by Rgirl, and Beaver Cleaver won out over many other worthy entries, such as the "Me-see-um Perineum" spin.

MM :eek:
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Tangy Tart said:
I was looking at the COP guide on the isu.org website and there is something called a flying layback spin. What exactly is this and do any skaters do it?

A junior skater named Ji Eun Choi (I think from Korea) did a flying layback spin. It's kind of underwhelmng to see. She jumps up and lands in a layback spin. There used to be a clip available of just the spin. If anyone wants to see it, I'll hunt it up.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
DORISPULASKI said:
A junior skater named Ji Eun Choi (I think from Korea) did a flying layback spin. It's kind of underwhelmng to see. She jumps up and lands in a layback spin. There used to be a clip available of just the spin. If anyone wants to see it, I'll hunt it up.
A Flying Layback! That's quite a feat, Doris. If you find it, I'd like to see it.

All this business about spirals because of flexibility are not new. As I said many times before Belita did everything in the 40s what we see today.

Joe
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
MM...wow, GS sure is influential across the boards then! I had no idea the name originated here, thanks for the info!

I could've sworn a US lady did a flying layback a couple seasons ago, maybe Emily Hughes???? I just recall watching a clip, expecting to be wow'd and thinking,"Oh, that was it?" But I forget who the skater was.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I like it - it's unexpected. It looks to me like her execution is a little unpolished. If the leg were straight it might look quite beautiful. But I don't really know what I'm talking about...
 

TangyTart

Spectator
Joined
Jun 23, 2006
That flying layback was not as exciting as I had expected. I sort of hoped for something with some type of flip like motion but i guess I was just dreaming. Anyways its still pretty cool.
 

c_e_ahlen

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
The flying layback...

I'd expected more. I felt it looked a bit like she was going to do a flying sit spin but changed her mind. Not that pretty, or exciting for that matter.
 

Fozzie Bear

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 24, 2004
I love when she does that side layback position. I keep wishing she would never do the bent-leg one again (usually she does one in the combo spin).
 
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