ISU rule changes | Golden Skate

ISU rule changes

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
OK, all of you CoP nerds out there, bookmark ISU Communications #1396 (I just did, LOL). :)

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-177063-194281-109218-0-file,00.pdf

This document summarizes the revised rules for the coming season. A couple of noteworthy changes:

#6. Require at least one spiral position without any assistance of the hand or arm, in both the SP and the LP. :clap: :clap:

In particular, not every spiral can be a Biellmann. This is a great rule change. Now we will see who can really attain an acceptable classic spiral position and who can't.

#11. If a triple or quad jump is performed twice as a solo jump the second execution will be counted as a jump sequence with only one jump included.

The change is, it used to be scored as a jump combo. Under the new rule you will still be able to do and get credit for two combos, even if you flub a combo attempt.

Actually, the penalty for not completing the sequence is not very severe. It would be worth it to do two solo quads and blow off the Zayak rules altogether.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
There are also some revised guidelines about levels of difficulty for spins and spirals, some adjustments in the base values of spins, and some clarifications of the GOE criteria.

They did not address the flutz question. The rule is still, just take off -1 to -3 GOE for a wrong take-off edge, depending on length.

As best I can make out, they put in some rules to the effect that certain errors carry a required negative GOE, so that judges can't say that positive features outweighed the negative and end up with a 0 or positive GOE on a badly flawed element.

(I'm not sure about this. Some GOEs are listed as, for instance, "GOE -3" and others as "-3, -GOE". I think the former means, you must give a -3 GOE for the element, and the latter means, take off -3 in the calculation of the overall GOE, but other features could also count on the positive side.)

Here are the rules on underrotation of jumps. If it is underrotated and downgraded, the judges are supposed to take off an additional -1 to -3 off the downgraded base value.

If it is slightly underroted but not downgraded, the judges are supposed to take off -2 from the full base value.

This is not a change from last year, BTW. So, for instance, if the judges were following the rules on Lambiel's downgraded triple Axel, the fact that 8 of the 12 judges gave Stephane 0 or positive GOEs means that those eight not only thought that the jump was rotated enough to be called a triple, but in fact was a fully rotated triple, all 1260 degrees with no cheat whatever.
 

Lonewolf

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Mathman said:
In particular, not every spiral can be a Biellmann. This is a great rule change. Now we will see who can really attain an acceptable classic spiral position and who can't.


I agree this is good rule change. Although, I am not a big fan of the Biellmann, if a skater performs one well that’s okay. However, too many skaters perform more than one in their routine. This is why I am not a big fan of the Biellmann. Thus, if I read this correctly, the number of Biellmann’s will be reduced in a skater’s routine as they find new ways to add spirals to their performances.
 

Theatregirl1122

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Mathman said:
#11. If a triple or quad jump is performed twice as a solo jump the second execution will be counted as a jump sequence with only one jump included.

The change is, it used to be scored as a jump combo. Under the new rule you will still be able to do and get credit for two combos, even if you flub a combo attempt.

Actually, the penalty for not completing the sequence is not very severe. It would be worth it to do two solo quads and blow off the Zayak rules altogether.

I don't really understand what effect this rule has at all. Jump+COMBO should be the same as Jump+SEQUENCE. Both take up one of your multi-jump passes, correct? Or have I missed something?
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
don't have the technical know-how of skating but I think a combo is two jumps in a row and a sequence is when you have a jump, maybe some half turn or something and then another one...? (techies correct me if I flubbed)
 

MKFSfan

Medalist
Joined
Mar 15, 2006
Mathman said:
#6. Require at least one spiral position without any assistance of the hand or arm, in both the SP and the LP. :clap: :clap:

In particular, not every spiral can be a Biellmann. This is a great rule change. Now we will see who can really attain an acceptable classic spiral position and who can't.

Great. That means more poorly done fan spirals. Oh, wait-we saw PLENTY of those last year!

It seemed to me every skater who had catchfoot/beillmann positions in their spiral sequences, also had a fan spiral to hide the fact they couldn't do a well-done, well extended spiral position without an arm/hand hold.

Aside from the usual leg extended behind the skater and a fan spiral, what other positions do we see most of that would fit this criteria? I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
This sounds like they are reading our threads - yah right.:laugh:

Seriously though, these sound like good changes and ones that have been discussed here.

MKFSfan said:
Aside from the usual leg extended behind the skater and a fan spiral, what other positions do we see most of that would fit this criteria? I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.

:agree: I would also like to see "letting go of the free leg during the spiral" that is still Kidadas ne? Lets see some one emulate that move:agree:
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
MKFSfan said:
Great. That means more poorly done fan spirals. Oh, wait-we saw PLENTY of those last year!

It seemed to me every skater who had catchfoot/beillmann positions in their spiral sequences, also had a fan spiral to hide the fact they couldn't do a well-done, well extended spiral position without an arm/hand hold.

Aside from the usual leg extended behind the skater and a fan spiral, what other positions do we see most of that would fit this criteria? I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.
The fire hydrant, Charlotte, arabesque (both front and back), side extension to back spiral, and unassisted attitude --rarely done; Cohen used it in exhibition as an entrance to her Charlotte -- are all spirals without hand assists.

In another change, they've downgraded telegraphs to -1, from -1 to -3, depending on severity.

I think the impact of being a +combo vs. a +sequence is that the skater gets full credit for combos and .8 for a sequence. I think that means that a solo quad toe, for example, in which the combo wasn't completed, would receive a base of 7.2 instead of 9.

They did not increase the value of a quad; 4T still starts at 9, with a .5 increase for each jump (S, Lo, F, Lu, A). But they did tweak the relative value of the 3Twist.

An "optional" element is dropped from Senior Pairs and a lift is dropped from Junior Pairs in the LP Well-Balanced Program elements.

The most interest change to me is that a jump sequence can have any number of jumps in it, as long as it maintains the rules of a sequence, and no more than two mohawks and/or three turns are done in sequence. This means that we might be able to see some of those beautiful long sequences from the 70's.
 
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SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
hockeyfan228 said:
The fire hydrant, Charlotte, arabesque (both front and back), side extension to back spiral, and unassisted attitude --rarely done; Cohen used it in exhibition as an entrance to her Charlotte -- are all spirals without hand assists.


You don't like the Charlotte? OK, but I am surprised.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
hockeyfan228 said:
I think the impact of being a +combo vs. a +sequence is that the skater gets full credit for combos and .8 for a sequence. I think that means that a solo quad toe, for example, in which the combo wasn't completed, would receive a base of 7.2 instead of 9.
Isn't it just the second jump of a sequence that gets the .8? I took this to mean that you could get full value for the second quad.

But they did tweak the relative value of the 3T.
They did? Isn't it still 4.0, as always?

The most interesting change to me is that a jump sequence can have any number of jumps in it, as long as it maintains the rules of a sequence, and no more than two mohawks and/or three turns are done in sequence. This means that we might be able to see some of those beautiful long sequences from the 70's.[/QUOTE]Hmm. Get ready for 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+SEQ. :)

Is the Charlotte a spiral or is it a moves-in-the-field element? Do skaters do a Charlotte on an edge or on the flat? I don't think I have ever seen a change of edge Charlotte, or even one done in an arc.

MM :)
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Mathman said:
Here are the rules on underrotation of jumps. If it is underrotated and downgraded, the judges are supposed to take off an additional -1 to -3 off the downgraded base value.

I don't like this. If you go for a Triple Toe and do 2.5 revolutions, why should you get less credit than a regular Double Toe??? If anything, you should get a small BONUS.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
MKFSfan said:
I wonder if the no hands Y-spiral Shiz did will become popular.
Seanibu said:
I would also like to see "letting go of the free leg during the spiral" that is still Kidadas ne? Lets see some one emulate that move.
Yeah, I doubt if that will become popluar, for the simple reason that no one can do it. :laugh:

But that starts out holding the leg, so I don't know how that would be classified.

Now if someone could raise their leg to that position unassisted... :)
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Mathman said:
This means that we might be able to see some of those beautiful long sequences from the 70's. Hmm. Get ready for 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+SEQ. :)

If you aren't taking any steps inbetween the jumps, I think that should still count as a combination.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Zuranthium said:
I don't like this. If you go for a Triple Toe and do 2.5 revolutions, why should you get less credit than a regular Double Toe??? If anything, you should get a small BONUS.
Yeah, that's kind of strange. This is not a new rule, BTW, that's how it has always been.

The way it was explained to me, if you do 2.5 revolutions on a double, that means you have a severe overrotation, so you should be marked down for it. (Plus, your landing is going to be wonky if your blade isn't all the way around, I would think).
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Zuranthium said:
If you aren't taking any steps inbetween the jumps, I think that should still count as a combination.
The "+SEQ" means that there were steps between. As far as I can see, the rules for a combo have not changed -- you can still do a maximum of three jumps (and only one combo with three jumps).

BTW, does anyone know what the rationale is for not being allowed to do two double Axels in sequence? Both Michelle Kwan (closing group number in 2005 COI) and Kurt Browning (Don't Fence Me In) have done four in a row in exhibition programs, and it looks really cool.
 
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Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
I just don't see overrotating as a bad thing if it looks clean.

Often times your landing might be bad on a 2.5 jump, but other times it means you are doing 3 full revolutions with just a clean half rotation done on the ice instead of the air. In Shizuka Arakawa's 2004 Worlds Short Program, she only did 2.5 revolutions in the air for the second part of her 3Lutz/3Toe combination, but without the slow-mo you could barely tell anything was wrong because the extra half rotation of the blade on the ice was totally clean. In these cases I think it should be counted as a double jump with a bonus.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Maybe they figure that you deserve a penalty because you landed on the wrong edge -- say, a forward inside edge instead of the required back inside edge. (?)

Just guessing. I agree that the penalty for underrotation seems out of line compared to that for other mistakes. You have already lost the majority of the jump's value by the downgrade.
 

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Mathman said:
The "+SEQ" means that there were steps between. As far as I can see, the rules for a combo have not changed -- you can still do a maximum of three jumps (and only one combo with three jumps).

I think that rule should be changed as far as a maximum of three. As long as each jump is different from the preceding one, what is the problem? Obviously a 3Lutz/2Toe/2Toe/2Toe/2Toe/2Toe/2Toe combo would be very boring, but imagine a 3Lutz/2Toe/Half Loop/2 Sal/2 Loop. Brilliant.

I myself have been working on 2Axle/Half Loop/2Sal/2Toe/2Loop. Not that it's consistent or anything.....:rofl:
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
They did? Isn't it still 4.0, as always?
I meant the 3Twist. I've edited my post so I don't confuse anyone else.

Mathman said:
Hmm. Get ready for 3Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+2Lo+SEQ. :)
But that would be an 8-jump Combo, and the last 5 jumps would get no credit :)

It would have to be more like 3Lo+[mohawk/3turn]+2Lo+half Lo+2Lo etc. Although I don't know enought about skating technique to know what edges mohawks and three turns are done with, and what the legalities of getting on the correct take-off edge are.

I think they'd be more like the lovely sequences that your Dorothy :love: and Janet Lynn used, and that Gordeeva/Grinkov did in their pairs routines.

Mathman said:
s the Charlotte a spiral or is it a moves-in-the-field element? Do skaters do a Charlotte on an edge or on the flat? I don't think I have ever seen a change of edge Charlotte, or even one done in an arc.

MM :)
You're probably right. I haven't seen a full Charlotte on an edge, but I've seen Kwan and Slutskaya do penche's on an edge. (135-150 degrees with a forward lean.)
 
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