Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
This one, I may know the answer to. At Worlds 2003, Obertas was skating with Sokolov. At Cup of Russia 2003, she was skating with Slavnov and they did
3Fth in the SP and the 3LpTh and 3FTh in the LP. So they seem to have known both skills pretty much for their whole career together. (This is one of the joys of COP--you can look up what everyone was doing back in the 2003 Grand Prix.)
Ok, well that's my theory out of the window then!! Maybe the triple flip is easier for them - does anyone know what Julie's triple (or even double) edge jumps are like? She seems to struggle badly with the double axel - i can't remember one in competition that she's landed. That might explain the use of the throw flip? Does anyone know who had a hand in writing the pairs side of the CoP? Tied into the bit below about assigning tarrifs for elements i'd like to know who they asked to come up with the tariffs in the frist place and who got it changed this time around.

Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI
The whole business of assigning tariffs to skills very few teams (or even no teams) have done is one of the black magic pieces of COP, given that any particular team may not be very representative.

I am suspecting that the flip is about the same as the loop because of the height assist you get from the toe pick. But we'll definitely see!
Like i mentioned above it would be interesting to see who was involved and who was used in coming up with the pairs tariffs.

One final observation on the difficulty of thrown jumps is that they must follow (at least a little bit) the correlating difficulty of performing the solo jump without the throw. The flip is a more difficult jump done solo for many reasons one of which is the pick assit in the jump. Though called a "toe salchow" here in the UK and at least on paper is a salchow with a toe assist, unlike the loop and toe loop the jump is not made easier with the toe assist - the weight transfer from the LBI edge to the right pick is quite difficult, as is obtaining the backspin position required for multi-revolution versions of the jump - all things which are not required for a loop who's preparation, take off, flight and landing are the same in all phases. I would guess that having a partner launching you into a flip is difficult because there are more things that can go wrong and can affect the jump going well, unlike the loop...anyway i think arguments can me made either way for the jumps being equally as difficult or one slightly harder than the other. One thing though related to teh CoP tarrifs is that just because one skater find one things more problematic than another doesn't mean that is necessairly harder. The Axel is nototrriously difficult and a lot of young skaters land their double sals and toes before landing the axel. But tht doen't mean the tariffs should be changed to make an axel worth more than a double sal...or does it?!