Does Johnny Weir have a competitive spirit? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Does Johnny Weir have a competitive spirit?

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Joesitz said:
The Soviet system of skating with its emphasis on winning for the glory of Mother Russia worked for many years. There are now attempts to recreate that through capitalism. There is talent there but can they do it for the glory of themselves alone? While Johnny is a Rusophile (nothing wrong with that), he is not really a part of the Soviet system.

Joe

Well, I think that to win a gold medal for one´s country may be important for an athlete, but more important it is to win it for oneself. Whatever a skater might be saying about the matter, LOL, the human nature surely is about the same everywhere. An Olympic gold medal or Worlds gold (or multiple gold medals) surely have brought advantages (and also privileges e.g. in Soviet Union that were not otherwise possible) for athletes in lots of countries, I´d imagine.

I also think that for skaters that are talented enough in presentation and technically to be able to win in competitions, only the gold medal exists. Silver or bronze are a loss surely. For lesser skaters (= those not expected to win) a silver or bronze medal is very welcome.
 
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slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
I think the media are hard on him. He is a very good skater but he skates in a very difficult era with Plushenko, Lambiel, Joubert, and many others. It is a tough event to find spots on the podium in.
 

heyang

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
There are 2 instances where I think Weir showed a lack of competitive fire. The 1st was at Nationals a few years go (I think?). He hurt himself during a jump and then went sliding into the boards. He pretty much took himself off the ice at that point. I realize he was hurt and probably shaken; it's just the way he did it. We've seen lots of incidents where skaters have had accidents during warmups and gotten back on the ice to do their best. Bowman hurt himself during his LP at the Olympics, but continued the routine without the tricks and limped off the ice.

At last year's World's, he was tired and hurting. I really felt that his performance lacked any semblance of truly trying to put himself out there. I realize that an Olympic year is tough, but if you are going, then you should try to do your best. He did learn from his previous experience and didn't walk off, but he really didn't seem to be trying to motivate himself. Instead of telling himself to 'push for it', he seemed to be telling himself 'I'm tired'.

It's tough to always perform at the optimum, but you have to at least always push yourself to do the best that you can at that moment. I think he gets discouraged too easily when he doesn't perform and/or skate to his expectations. When Johnny's on, he's magical.

JMHO!!!!
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Weir had very painful back spasms, which pretty much took him out of medal contention this past Worlds. He did the best he could under the circumstances. He wasn't just 'tired and hurting', he was fighting to stand up straight!

I do NOT understand why people keep bringing up Nationals 2003. That was over three years ago, and Johnny has won THREE National titles since then. Sheesh! Talk about unforgiving!
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
chuckm said:
I do NOT understand why people keep bringing up Nationals 2003. That was over three years ago, and Johnny has won THREE National titles since then. Sheesh! Talk about unforgiving!
I think some posters bring it up to show that Johnny can move on after adversary.

Joe
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Joesitz said:
I think some posters bring it up to show that Johnny can move on after adversary.

Joe

No, most of the time when that incident is brought up it is to illustrate a character flaw in Johnny. Heyang's post used that incident to show a "lack of competitive fire".
 

attyfan

Custom Title
Medalist
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Zanzibar said:
...

Johnny may not have quite the total killer instinct of his present and former Russian champion counterparts, but those guys came from a different system, mentality, and country - an ideology where there are only two placements at an event: gold medal winner....and losers. I think when Plushenko and Yagudin got silver or bronze at an event, there was little joy in it. They only 'see' one position - the top of the podium. In America, we seem a bit more relaxed on that attitude, for better or worse.

I don't recall seeing the same type of "killer instinct" between rival Russian pairs teams that I saw between Yagudin and Plushenko -- and I recall that the rivalry between Irina and Maria seemed a lot more "killer" than the Irina/Michelle rivalry. Was I missing something? (I want to know if the instinct is truly a result of the Russian system or a result of personal likes/dislikes)
 

temperboy27

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
JonnyCoop said:
If one is such a natural at it, one doesn't have to work as hard*; thus it becomes -- relatively speaking -- too easy, so it's difficult to develop the "edge" one needs to become a real competitior. Just look at two other examples of tremendous natural talent in the sport -- Christopher Bowman and Tonya Harding. These are two people who could be incredible without even half trying, and neither were known for being fierce competitiors. IMHO if you have to work harder for it, then by the time you get there the "spirit" has really kicked in.

Weir has not yet earned the right to be compared to Bowman and Harding. Harding won a world silver, and won her lone U.S title beating that years World champion and next years Olympic champion Kristi Yamaguchi. Bowman won two World medals, back to back years. Harding and Bowman each have a 4th place finish from the Olympics. Weir will be hard pressed to match the careers of Bowman and Harding it looks like so he should not be compared to them.

If Weir manages to win 2 world medals in back to back years like Bowman did, or manages to defeat that years World Champion to win U.S Nationals in addition to a World silver it will be a big surprise.
 

chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
Irina and Michelle have always had a cordial relationship, but Irina and Maria B. were bitter enemies. From an early age, Irina was the "favored child" in the Russian system, while Maria had to fight tooth and nail for every assignment she got. Maria never received the same accolades that Irina did, even after she won Russia's first Ladies World gold---two years before Irina.

I think the drive to be #1 is very important in Russia, and it is now up for grabs for both the Ladies and the Men. In Pairs and Dance, there has always been an established pecking order, and the Pettikhs are the #1 Pair (at least for this season), and Domnina/Shabalin are the Dance heirs apparent.
 
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temperboy27

Match Penalty
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Does being number one really mean much with the current group of singles skaters in Russia. I mean none of them are that good, lets face it. Sokolova has a chance to medal at world events still. The rest of them that I can think of Griazev, etc.....dont. Volchkova a few years back may have been a contender but not anymore.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
That's an interesting perspective, Temperboy. Personally, I think Russia will be able to develop its young pairs and dance teams and continue to be a force in those disciplines. Not so sure about men's and especially ladies'.

BTW, welcome to Golden Skate! Your threads and posts are very much on point here. :rock:

Mathman :)
 

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin
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Jul 28, 2003
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United-States
chuckm said:
From his most recent interviews and Q&A sessions, he seems to have undergone a big change insofar as the way he sees himself as a skater
I think Marina has been good for Johnny. I think she would be a no nonsense type person as well as Tatianna.

Dee
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
And let's not forget Pricilla Hill. She nurtured him from day 1 and still at it. He got all his triples by Priscilla, and with his natural flow on the ice, he became a very unique skater. He did well in US Nationals against the old guard long before he went to TT for choreography. Like Sasha his jumps didn't get any better or were there quads, but she did give both of them beautiful routines.

Joe
 

JonnyCoop

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2003
temperboy27 said:
Weir has not yet earned the right to be compared to Bowman and Harding. Harding won a world silver, and won her lone U.S title beating that years World champion and next years Olympic champion Kristi Yamaguchi. Bowman won two World medals, back to back years. Harding and Bowman each have a 4th place finish from the Olympics. Weir will be hard pressed to match the careers of Bowman and Harding it looks like so he should not be compared to them.

If Weir manages to win 2 world medals in back to back years like Bowman did, or manages to defeat that years World Champion to win U.S Nationals in addition to a World silver it will be a big surprise.

AT NO POINT DID I COMPARE, ON THIS THREAD, THE RELATIVE COMPETITIVE RECORDS OF WEIR VS. EITHER HARDING OR BOWMAN, BECAUSE THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POINT THAT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. ALL I BASICALLY SAID WAS, LIKE BOWMAN AND HARDING, WEIR IS A NATURAL TALENT. I THINK THE FACT THAT HE DID NOT START SKATING UNTIL HE WAS 12, WHICH IS PRETTY LATE IN LIFE FOR AN ELITE SKATER, AND HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT HE HAS, PRETTY MUCH BACKS UP MY ASSERTION THAT HE IS A NATURAL TALENT. SO WAS BOWMAN, SO WAS HARDING. RELATIVE COMPETITIVE RECORDS OF THE 3 ARE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT.
 

jesslily

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
I think Johnny used to have the competitive spirit. That's before 2004. For the past two years, he has not been very excited about the competitions. It seems like he already know how far he can reach for his career.
 

76olympics

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
I do like Johnny's skating (though he isn't my all-time favorite), but I don't think competition has been his priority in the last year. He seems to be doing things inspired by self-expression ( the high heels pic, interviews, etc) that skaters do after their amateur days are done. I think he will need to crank down this type of stuff considerably and focus on skating to get the results that I think he could get with his talent.

Maybe, he doesn't want to do this. That is his decision to make. But, I don't think that stuff is the right avenue to take if he is focused on good amateur results. I respect his commitment to his fans . I think he comes across well in his Q and As on his site. Some of his choices do indicate that he still has some growing up to do. ( I am dashing for cover behind the nearest tree! :laugh: )
 
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