Cohen's beauty and polish not appreciated?

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 22, 2006

antmanb said:
How the worlds competitions all bleed into one - i though '04 worlds was the last scored under 6.0...and i seemed to think that was the year Cohen was in a blue dress and fell out of the change edge camel spin....was that not the LP or was that a different year?

Ant

I think you are correct. She didn't fall in the LP in 04 but she skated the entire Swan Lake very tentatively, and she did went askew in the camel spin. There was also a triple that went double and was wobbly. Kwan's Tosca got a slew of 6.0s and not just from the US. Shizuka came on strong with the 3x3s and the wow ina bauer.

I really felt sorry for Sasha because the QR was a work of art that she could not duplicate in the LP.

Joe

MKFSfan · Aug 22, 2006

antmanb said:
How the worlds competitions all bleed into one - i though '04 worlds was the last scored under 6.0...and i seemed to think that was the year Cohen was in a blue dress and fell out of the change edge camel spin....was that not the LP or was that a different year?

Ant

That was 2003 LP-Sasha landed a 3lz/3t with a slight 2foot, but then went on to fall on her IE camel spin and 3toe. 2004 was last 6.0 competition, where Sasha skated extremely tentative, deer-in-the-headlights look in the LP, had a badly landed salchow (2 1/2 rotations, but no fall) and other minor scratchy landings.

R.D. · Aug 22, 2006

antmanb said:
How the worlds competitions all bleed into one - i though '04 worlds was the last scored under 6.0...and i seemed to think that was the year Cohen was in a blue dress and fell out of the change edge camel spin....was that not the LP or was that a different year?

Ant

I think that was in '03, in DC.

I really felt sorry for Sasha because the QR was a work of art that she could not duplicate in the LP.

Too bad we never got to see this "legendary" QR from her.

But, you know, too bad. In order to be a champion you have to nail ALL aspects of the competition- or at least do it better than your competitors.

Lucy25 · Aug 22, 2006

Wasn't that "work of art" LP in the QR purposely watered down somewhat so that she could skate clean? She left out a jump, I think. That doesn't really bug me because choreography could be very good; however, I still don't see anything special about that program. To each their own, I guess.

Joesitz (RIP) · Aug 22, 2006

Lucy25 said:
Wasn't that "work of art" LP in the QR purposely watered down somewhat so that she could skate clean? She left out a jump, I think. That doesn't really bug me because choreography could be very good; however, I still don't see anything special about that program. To each their own, I guess.

I think people think Wagner changed the entire TT choreography. No she didn't. Just the opening as far as I can remember. And yes it was done to ensure confidence and a clean routine especially for the first jump, I think.

I wish someone would run their US Nats tape of that year and the Dortmund LP and look at the choreography. Not Sasha because one was skated better than the other. Just the choreo. Is there much difference between the two other than the opening?

Joe

dancindiva03 · Aug 22, 2006

Joesitz said:
I think people think Wagner changed the entire TT choreography. No she didn't. Just the opening as far as I can remember. And yes it was done to ensure confidence and a clean routine especially for the first jump, I think.

I wish someone would run their US Nats tape of that year and the Dortmund LP and look at the choreography. Not Sasha because one was skated better than the other. Just the choreo. Is there much difference between the two other than the opening?

Joe

I just watched both versions of Swan Lake. In terms of the Wagner version being "watered down", thats not really true because the original didn't have much content to begin with. The changes Robin made were not really to take stuff out, but to rearrange the spins/jumps/spirals to make it much more frontloaded with regards to the jumps. Almost all of the jumps came before the halfway mark. But with everything else, it was a VERY empty program from the very start. Tons and tons of crossovers and two-footed "posing". Most of her in betweens, other than the millions of crossovers, were simple three-turns and mohawks. Neither version was anything close to a masterpiece IMHO.

hockeyfan228 · Aug 22, 2006

A Tarasova program front-loaded? Now there's a shock... And to think that Wagner front-loaded it even more, yikes...

dancindiva03 · Aug 22, 2006

hockeyfan228 said:
A Tarasova program front-loaded? Now there's a shock... And to think that Wagner front-loaded it even more, yikes...

The Tarosova program was somewhat front-loaded, as are most of Sasha's programs regardless of the choreographer, but Wagner's version was SOOOOOOO badly front-loaded. It was awful! I know the intent was to make it easier for Sasha to land the jumps, but it looks so horrible.

antmanb · Aug 23, 2006

Deleted

Ant

antmanb · Aug 23, 2006

MKFSfan said:
That was 2003 LP-Sasha landed a 3lz/3t with a slight 2foot, but then went on to fall on her IE camel spin and 3toe. 2004 was last 6.0 competition, where Sasha skated extremely tentative, deer-in-the-headlights look in the LP, had a badly landed salchow (2 1/2 rotations, but no fall) and other minor scratchy landings.

That's the one!! And was that the same year that MIchelle had the casino guy come out on theice before herskate, or was that the following year?

Ant

MKFSfan · Aug 23, 2006

The casino guy was in Dortmund in 2004.

anniemg · Aug 23, 2006

dancindiva03 said:
I just watched both versions of Swan Lake. In terms of the Wagner version being "watered down", thats not really true because the original didn't have much content to begin with. The changes Robin made were not really to take stuff out, but to rearrange the spins/jumps/spirals to make it much more frontloaded with regards to the jumps. Almost all of the jumps came before the halfway mark. But with everything else, it was a VERY empty program from the very start. Tons and tons of crossovers and two-footed "posing". Most of her in betweens, other than the millions of crossovers, were simple three-turns and mohawks. Neither version was anything close to a masterpiece IMHO.

Wagner's program was: jump, skate around, jump, skate around, jump, skate around, jump, skate around. It was horrible, Sasha's worst program ever. I think she must have trusted Wagner a lot to agree to that program. It had no content in the beginning whatsoever.

I loved Sasha's first Swan Lake, which, even if it was a bit front loaded, it had great choreography and it made it 'smooth' and great to watch. She was real swan in that one. I will never forget my dad's reaction to the 2004 Worlds LP. He's no skating expert, but he had said 'The problem with this program is that Sasha has forgotten that she's a swan.' And I agree!

Dee4707 · Aug 23, 2006

Red Dog said:
IWith Cohen I find myself "waiting for the mistake" whenever she skates her free programs.

Why do you do that??? Why not just enjoy the skating. If I did that then I would expect that from all the skaters. All skaters have fallen!!!!

Dee

Linny · Aug 23, 2006

waiting

For me, it's not exactly waiting for the mistake, it's more like wishing and hoping for her to make it through clean.

It was always that way for me with Maria B., too - her landings always seemed a bit unsteady to me but her grace and beauty were striking.

Linny

kittyjake5 · Aug 23, 2006

Linny said:
For me, it's not exactly waiting for the mistake, it's more like wishing and hoping for her to make it through clean.

It was always that way for me with Maria B., too - her landings always seemed a bit unsteady to me but her grace and beauty were striking.

Linny

I am always on the edge of my seat wishing and hoping for her to skate clean. When I saw Sasha at COI it was so nice for me to see her skate and not feel the pressure I feel when she competes. I just sat back and enjoyed.

anniemg · Aug 23, 2006

I feel nervous everytime a favourite skater of mine skates, whether that's Sasha,or Lambiel, or Yagudin, or Anissina/Peizerat. In ice-dance you dont get that many falls, but I was still incredibly nervous for them. It's not stronger with Sasha-I just want her to do well. She does have a history of not putting out perfect performances, but I know very few that do have those kind of programs so I dont really care.

Fossi · Aug 23, 2006

Sasha will be up against some incredibly consistent skaters, that have the technical difficulty to trump her if she continues to make her mistakes that everyone "waits" for.
I think the judges are tired of waiting for a clean Cohen program, and realized that the young girls with the jumps are the ones to watch. Sasha is actually getting pretty "old" in the figure skating world, and has yet to master a "clean" competition. The 2 foots aren't "clean" IMO, so in a sense she hasn't even mastered her jumps!
Injury in figure skating isn't an excuse. It is a fact of life. It has become a question of WHEN will I get injured, rather then WILL I get injured.

R.D. · Aug 23, 2006

Dee4707 said:
Why do you do that??? Why not just enjoy the skating. If I did that then I would expect that from all the skaters. All skaters have fallen!!!!

Dee

But you see Dee, it's not a conscious thing! Of course all skaters fall. But with someone like Sasha after a while I just come to EXPECT the mistake. In other words, she'll never do a clean long. With other skaters, I consider the possibility of them acing the program. For example, it's so unusual (for me) to see Kwan or Slutskaya fall because IT DOESN'T HAPPEN OFTEN. I think it's because Cohen has been a top 3 skater for awhile now and still hasn't been able to break through, while even skaters lower than her have at least had that magical FS moment.

anniemg · Aug 23, 2006

Red Dog said:
. In other words, she'll never do a clean long.

That's what having faith in someone is all about...:frown2:

I just think that even though you're entitled to your opinion I its not right to just state it like that...She won't read it(I hope) but it's not a very nice thing to say.

Kwanford Wife · Aug 23, 2006

Dee4707 said:
Why do you do that??? Why not just enjoy the skating. If I did that then I would expect that from all the skaters. All skaters have fallen!!!!

Dee

Dee, you are such a sweetie pie... :bow:

we wait for the fall because we're mean, evil, bitter and twisted!!

Ok. I feel better now. I shall turn the conversation back over to the smart people... :laugh:

Cohen's beauty and polish not appreciated?

Joesitz (RIP)

MKFSfan

R.D.

Lucy25

Joesitz (RIP)

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

hockeyfan228

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

antmanb

antmanb

MKFSfan

anniemg

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

Linny

kittyjake5

anniemg

Fossi

R.D.

anniemg

Kwanford Wife

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