Interesting to see Slutskaya's scores at Olympic vs Arakawa. | Page 3 | Golden Skate

Interesting to see Slutskaya's scores at Olympic vs Arakawa.

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
This is how I recall Tracy Wilson broke down the scoring and the results between Slutskaya and Cohen, when she broke down the scores into different areas:

"So while Irina Slutskaya allowed the major mistakes on her jumps to affect her other elements(spins and steps) and overall performance level as well; Sasha was able to put the mistakes on the jumps aside, and deliver the rest of her performance and that was the difference for the silver medal."

The one part I dont agree with on that is that I dont feel Irina's quality of spins, steps, and PC suffered noticeably more after the two jump errors, I feel they were already below her usual standard from the very start. I did not get a good feeling from the start of her program, although if she had landed all her jumps she still would have probably won, I was worried about her performance from the start and how she looked even before the big jump errors. I dont know what it was, extreme pressure, her performance lacked any of its usual spark, and her elements all looked ragged and shaky from the start. I remember thinking to myself in horror from the start, "omigod if she ever tight, either that or too tired."

Granted she seemed to rush through the final straightline footwork, you could almost tell she was already very upset since she knew she was not going to win after the second major jump error, and she both lost value since it was valued only a level 2, when it could have been valued at a level 4 done properly, as well as GOE scores, which might have been enough to eke out the silver if it was really well done. Irina was pretty much set on the gold in her mind from the start though, once she realized that was gone I am not sure if she really cared that much.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well Irina already has an Olympic Silver, so she doesn't really need another one I guess she figured.

Cohen didn't have an OM so she needed to fight the rest of the way as hard as she could to even have a chance at one. She really lucked out, kind of like Sarah did to win in 02. (Who was the "lucky" one in 98...and don't tell me Lipinski :biggrin: )

However, she's going to [rock] at Skate Canada. (Defending champ Alissa C. is dead meat )

Bold of you. The GP series has never been predictable in the years I've been here...skaters that are supposed to rock the house tank, and virtually unknown skaters get the opportunity to experience a podium finish.
 

Jasper

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Sadly, Slutskaya peaked in her first two competitions of the season and never regained that spark. Her programs in Turino were just sloppy and lacking in energy.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
Well it was her short program scoring that surprised me. It was her lowest scored short program all year I believe, and I thought she would get a higher score in the short program and win the short. So that surprised me.

I too was surprised on her SP scoring. Figure skating judging being what it is, LOL, I wondered whether her loss to Mao Asada (a junior skater!!!) in GPF SP and FS caused that SP scoring in the Olympics.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Sadly, Slutskaya peaked in her first two competitions of the season and never regained that spark. Her programs in Turino were just sloppy and lacking in energy.

Maybe Slutskaya should have followed the example of her friend and skipped the Grand Prix. Then maybe she would have won.
 

Lanie

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Slutskaya's jumps may be big but she telegraphs, she lands poorly with no run out and little holding of that edge. She looks like a mess IMO.

I do agree that Sasha's jump problems stem from her lack of edge control. Oh if she worked on that... She does however have a nice proper position in the air, tight rotation, and she has lovely run-out.
 

Lanie

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think Irina was just plain sick. Sick and tired and exhausted and add in nerves...that's a deadly combination.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I dont find that at all. Cohen flutzes, she leans in the air, and only on some of her jumps does she have nice run out, alot she lands stiff and with no flow too. The only jumps Irina lands with no flow on a good day is her triple lutz, the rest have good flow out, and her form in the air and rythym is better then Cohen's as well, and she actualy takes off with proper edges unlike Cohen.

Well if you're calling Cohen's Flutz then you have to call Irina's 'Lip which pretty much leaves them even on that count. I think in terms of edge quality, they're pretty evenly matched on the take off edges of the Toe, Sal and Loop. Cohen i gues gets dinged a little for her wobbly Flip edge which is the same as her wobbly flutz entrance. The Double axel is a tough call because they both have good double axels but in terms of edge quality - Irina's landing edge is not often the best on this jump but the height and diffuclty of transitions into this jump i think gives her a big nod.

While Irina has monster jumps in terms of height - her in-air position doesn't come close to Cohen's who hits a nice tight backspin position with pointed toes in the air - Irina can sometimes be a bit loose and sloppy in the air "muscling" the jump through the height more than in-air technique.

Both have their fair share of landing issues - Cohen holding the landing (but when she does she has good flow and run out) and Slutskaya does often come to a dead stop, not just on her Lutz but on all of her combinations. Her loop, which is supposedly her strongest jump often lands at a dead stop and on her 'Lip she has a tendancy to land on the inside edge first.

Irina has played around with some 'Tano jumps which maybe gives her something Cohen hasn't since she hasn't tried 'Tano jumps or adding transitions to her jumps like Irina's difficult SP Double Axel.

I think i would give Irina the nod in terms of jumps (if she lands them!) but i don't think the gap is as wide as some would argue.

Ant
 
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hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Sadly, Slutskaya peaked in her first two competitions of the season and never regained that spark.
Same as in 1998, when she killed everyone in the Goodwill Games at the beginning of the season.

antmanb said:
Well if you're calling Cohen's Flutz then you have to call Irina's 'Lip which pretty much leaves them even on that count.
I've never noticed Slutskaya's lip, but then, I've never looked for it.

Arakawa's, Sebestyen's, and Sokolova's lips are the pronounced ones I've noticed.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Mathman, if you are going to go just by jumps to give out the medals and final placings you should also add on the short program jumping totals, and then the combined jumping totals from both short and long, no? :biggrin:
The 2006 Great Olympic Jump-off. Here's the top ten, in two groups of five.

Short program (total scores, including GOEs, for the three jumping passes):

Meissner (USA): 19.39
Gedevanishvili (GEO): 18.37
Slutskaya: (RUS): 17.95
Suguri (JPN): 17.10
Meier (CH): 16.99

This is the top five going into the long program. Note that USA and Japan both have their top skaters well placed for the finale.

Also rans:

Arakawa (JPN): 16.96
Hughes (USA): 16.95. USA is looking good with two of their ladies in the top seven!
Cohen (USA): 16:05
Rochette (CAN): 15.53
Kostner (ITA): 11.66

Now for the main event. Here are SP + LP = Total scores for all jumping passes, including GOE.

Arakawa: 16.96 + 40.41= 57.37 gold
Meissner: 19.39 + 35.72 = 55.11 silver
Rochette: 15.53 + 39.51 = 55.04 bronze

Hughes: 16.95 + 36.94 = 53.89
Suguri: 17.10 + 36.45 = 53.55
Slutskaya: 17.95 + 34.56 = 52.51 (6th)

Meier: 16.99 + 33.33 = 50.32
Cohen: 16.05 + 33.67 = 49.72 (8th)
Gedevanishvili: 18.37 + 29.89 = 48.26

Kostner: 11.66 + 25.97 = 37.63

Congratulation to all the medalists! :clap:
 
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gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Same as in 1998, when she killed everyone in the Goodwill Games at the beginning of the season.

You mean the 2001-02 Goodwill Games in Australia?

1998 Goodwill Games was in summer 1998 in NY, months after the Olympics -- some skaters actually introduced new programs they intended to use in the 1998-99 season.

M. Kwan dominated that event, winning both programs easily and probably with straight 1st-place ordinals. 1998 U.S. junior champion S. Hughes skated an exhibition of her long program and landed more triples than most of the competitors.

Slutskaya was struggling with her jumps that summer and not attempting lutzes. I really enjoyed her new Autumn Leaves SP though, with visibly improved spirals and musical expression between February and March and August of '98. I was amused that to see her as one of the slower, more expressive skaters in the field for a change.
 

slutskayafan21

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
The 2006 Great Olympic Jump-off. Here's the top ten, in two groups of five.

Short program (total scores, including GOEs, for the three jumping passes):

Meissner (USA): 19.39
Gedevanishvili (GEO): 18.37
Slutskaya: (RUS): 17.95
Suguri (JPN): 17.10
Meier (CH): 16.99

This is the top five going into the long program. Note that USA and Japan both have their top skaters well placed for the finale.

Also rans:

Arakawa (JPN): 16.96
Hughes (USA): 16.95. USA is looking good with two of their ladies in the top seven!
Cohen (USA): 16:05
Rochette (CAN): 15.53
Kostner (ITA): 11.66

Now for the main event. Here are SP + LP = Total scores for all jumping passes, including GOE.

Arakawa: 16.96 + 40.41= 57.37 gold
Meissner: 19.39 + 35.72 = 55.11 silver
Rochette: 15.53 + 39.51 = 55.04 bronze

Suguri: 17.10 + 36.45 = 53.55
Hughes: 16.95 + 36.94 = 53.89
Slutskaya: 17.95 + 34.56 = 52.51 (6th)

Meier: 16.99 + 33.33 = 50.32
Cohen: 16.05 + 33.67 = 49.72 (8th)
Gedevanishvili: 18.37 + 29.89 = 48.26

Kostner: 11.66 + 25.97 = 37.63

Congratulation to all the medalists! :clap:


Thanks, woohoo a medal for Canada. :agree: That triple-triple in the short actually payed off for Meissner after all(of course in the real competition it seemed to have little impact considering she scored lower then her short at Worlds without the triple-triple).
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
M. Kwan dominated that event, winning both programs easily and probably with straight 1st-place ordinals.
:love: "M. Kwan's" performance of the Rachmaninov short program in that event took permanent possession of my heart and single-handedly made me a figure skating fan. :)
Slutskayafan said:
That triple-triple in the short actually payed off for Meissner after all...
It does stand out (also Gedevanishvili's), when you break down the scores.

I think we will see more and more skaters attempt a triple/triple in the short program. In the long, everyone does pretty much the same jumps if they can. If they can't do a triple/triple they can almost make up the difference with a triple/double/double.

But for the short program there still seems to be a "play-it-safe" mental block hanging over the skaters from the 6.0 era. The old wisdom was, "you can't win the contest in the short, but you can lose it."

That was true for ordinals, but in CoP judging every point counts equally. There is no reason not to go for the extra triple in the short if you can.

(CoP question: In the SP, if you fall on the second jump of your combination, but complete the revolutions, does that count as satisfying the jump combination requirement?)
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
(CoP question: In the SP, if you fall on the second jump of your combination, but complete the revolutions, does that count as satisfying the jump combination requirement?)

Yah but you get a neg 1,2 or 3 and a 1 or 2 point deduction. ????
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
(CoP question: In the SP, if you fall on the second jump of your combination, but complete the revolutions, does that count as satisfying the jump combination requirement?)

Yes. It's -2 on the GOE for a fall on the second jump. (If there were also problems with the first jump, the final GOE could be -3; if the first jump and everything except the landing of the second were excellent, the final GOE could be -1. Also there would be an additional 1.00 fall deduction off the total score.)

On the other hand, if you fall on the first jump, get up, and do a second jump, you'll get no credit for the second one.
 

hockeyfan228

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
You mean the 2001-02 Goodwill Games in Australia?

1998 Goodwill Games was in summer 1998 in NY, months after the Olympics -- some skaters actually introduced new programs they intended to use in the 1998-99 season.
:banging: Yes, that's what I meant. Thank you for the correction. (One of these days, I'll get my years straight.)
 
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