Empty Seats at SA!!!

Did this concern anyone else. It seems like there was a couple of sections totally empy and splatters of here and there empty. It really concerned me. What is the problem with all the empty seats??

I think Skate Canada will be filled.

Dee

I agree it is sad, no surprise hearing that from me. As for concern I can't say because I get the funny feeling FS is going to get back on the rise over the next 2 years.

With some of the skaters' routines still having an emphasis on artistic merit - more than necessary to the CoP anyway - the crowd's response to the artistic elements, this might giving a nice transition for "all things skating." Judging to perception. ??Maybe.

I noticed - as in most sports cases - how the crowds response and ability to "get evolved" in the routines changed energy / attitude. With the lack of people I think this can effect a skaters performance, so from that aspect I do feel a "little robed" by the fact seats are empty. If it was a full house I feel that can positively effect the skaters where we see full potential come out.

Audience involvement is such a important aspect to sporting events. It always makes me mad the person watching with me or around me gets negative, looses hope, brings the tone down. I feel that effects the outcome of the performance so much. One of the reasons baseball bugs me, the fans that leave as soon as things start going sour are so prevalent at those events.

The Broncos 12th man (yah I know not just us Broncos) is the perfect example of crowd participation. And if you have been in the situation you realize it is not just a matter of distraction to the other team, it is most importantly the energy of the crowd focused on the goal of the athletes that cause the beneficial change in their performance.

LSS.
I am concerned that the low turn outs effect the skaters performances negatively, and I think skating will be gaining popularity in the next couple of years.

But how many people that are sad about the empty seats and don't bother to fill them up?

Joesitz said:

But how many people that are sad about the empty seats and don't bother to fill them up?

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:agree:

I can only speak for myself, but afording a ticket from Denver to Conetect is not an option. I have had to forego events in the area also due to fiancees (ice skating related, from a chipped tooth - ice time. these will come before a trip down to the Springs) Plus the ticket prices need to come down to get them in, JMO, then the compensation of having more seats filled will mean more revinue to the areana - bigger purses for the skaters. That is an advertising risk. Which I would also love to go off on the advertising being catered to the same old theme as it has for 20 years now, needs a change too. Fact of the matter is, a successful sport in the past 20 years has been Avant Garde and or controversial then FS. Lets face it, people are not as likely to want to retire in a rocking chair as they once were, time to compensate with the direction of FS advertising. I have got to stop.....

I hope this not to off topic, but also the ban on advertising of most "other" skating events of any kind (comp or show) at comps and shows would lead people to believe there is not that much else going on in the skating world, hence giving them less incentive to get evolved if it isn't happening. Lift the ban in that area so people can see there is a event happening on a regular basis that the could emerges their time. If they don't see it there are so many that aren't going to know. Yes people could go find out, but they don't, we know how pubic opinion works, so show them or they wont know. Not everyone who would watch is going on these forums.
Let any Ice Skating be advertised at Ice Skating events, increase awareness and educate the options. So speedy may not get a rase this year because of an investment in advertising in order to get a huge one in 3 years time.

Also bug your news reporting stations about results.

Constructive criticism feed back to the powers that be I still feel is under utilized. If they were getting helpful direction possibilities instead of JUST negative feedback for there new ideas they never would have tried the mics in the ice thing because someone was providing other ideas. IMO. The money spent there could have went to advertising the GP. Talk about a fantasy water-cooler chat event, you get to discuss it for months, start the interest now. But least their trying.

Joe, I love your point and only want to expand it. There are lots of things we can all do on different levels to get more FS. I think I have been preaching that for a while now. Little bits in "reliable" consistency are going to help - there is mortar between bricks, aggregate in the mortar...everything can help popularity.

SeaniBu said:

As for concern I can't say because I get the funny feeling FS is going to get back on the rise over the next 2 years.

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I do, too. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but the new crop of young skaters, especially in the U.S., are really going to put on a show in the coming years.

Sean, did you do any more work on you "running scoreboard" idea? I was thinking of this: Whe they have bosled races ssometimes there is a running clock that shows the time, and also another clock showing where the current leader was at that point in the course. Maybe figure skating could have something like that. The skaters would turn in their element card so you would know they were going to do a triple Lutz (6.0), followed by a level 3 Camel spin (2.3), etc. Then when they double the Lutz, but get+.5 GOE on the spin, you could see a running total of how many points they got compared to how many they were trying for.

You need to be concerned with empty seats, looks like no one is interested. Like another poster said the price needs to come down, I can only go evey 2 years it costs me close to $1000 to attend. You add tickets, hotel, airfare / gas, food if you drive you have to pay to park, if you fly you have to pay for bus / taxi. But that's my vacation treat to myself.

Mathman said:

Sean, did you do any more work on you "running scoreboard" idea? I was thinking of this: Whe they have bosled races ssometimes there is a running clock that shows the time, and also another clock showing where the current leader was at that point in the course. Maybe figure skating could have something like that. The skaters would turn in their element card so you would know they were going to do a triple Lutz (6.0), followed by a level 3 Camel spin (2.3), etc. Then when they double the Lutz, but get+.5 GOE on the spin, you could see a running total of how many points they got compared to how many they were trying for.

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I like the clock comparison but when there is something to compare. And the concern of focus only on the leader is possibly going to have someone in a tissy.

Very similar to the ideas I presented to ESPN - this of course was from the discussion we all had here at GS regarding the idea. I have shown friends idea clips and they gave similar feedback to not so much info but.... as in my original ideas became to distracting having so much on the screen. And the Idea that is most liked and felt necessary is the identification and assigned point value during, having a running total of potential score. The big issue comes down to it becoming more popular and the score totals not coming in for everything until the event is done so 30 second delays on "Live events may not be enough time - also may cause contriversy. But a run down the side of the screen at the end with the actual points (i.e. including judges) received during the time they skate around waving and getting teddy bears seemed like it might work.

BTW I thought they turned in the element card, so that is where I got the idea the potential score posting compared to ref call, .... Don't they do this already?

Mathman said:

OT, is your signature quote by Snow White? Actually I think it is usually attributed to German physician Martin H. Fischer (b. 1879), and was brought to people's attention when author Arthur Bloch mentioned it in his book about Murphy's Law.

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It was Steven Write from a skit, I heard him so I gave him credit for the particular wording. The thing with quotes is "were they the first?" probably not (particularly Steve Write) but they said it with those particular words so I gave him the credit deeming that his "particular quote" anyhow.

Mathman said:

(I just can't help myself...sorry. )

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I like it you uncontrollable devil you I do like how you bring your wide verity of knowledge to the forum.
How was it originally said, now is my wonder. And I knew when I put it down that it was to true to never have ben a notion or comment until a "fried-out" (seeming) but intelligent comedian said it. He's good but not that good.:agree:

I have had the philosophy to ask a question of every answer until you can't ask a question without going the opposite direction of the intended question. But I always had to explain that one - me and that "un-succinct" thing again.

Empty Seats

I can tell you right now why there were so many empty seats-no Michelle Kwan. Her impact on the sport was enormous. Until someone comes along with her star power, this is what we will have.

kyla2 said:

I can tell you right now why there were so many empty seats-no Michelle Kwan. Her impact on the sport was enormous. Until someone comes along with her star power, this is what we will have.

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That could be correct but for the last two Skate Americas before Hartford, Michelle did not show up, and patrons were angry. I know, I was there In Pittsburgh and in Atlantic City. These are the casual fans who go to their local arenas to many things.

Joe

USFSA must do much better job advertising. The truth is that most casual fans simply did not know about SA. Hartford is in such a perfect location - 2.5 hrs from NYC, 1.5 hrs from Boston; I made it on Saturday as a day trip from Boston, and I believe many others would have if only they knew. Even SOI and COI often fall into the error of only energizing their base support. USFSA should certainly consider how to make it the sport more widely available.

The day trip thing would work better if they had the events scheduled a little bit earlier. Didn't one event start at 9:00? I could see this if they were televising live, but if it is a delayed broadcast, why not start things earlier?? I attended SA and I was staying nearby, but I wished they would have moved things up an hour or two. (I am not much of a night person!!)

This came up on another thread, the idea that sponsors could offer promotional goodies to the fans. Like a couple of years ago at the Marshall's cheesefest in Detroit, if you took your ticket to Marshall's department store the next day you could get a free U.S. Figure Skating tote bag. (I got two )

kyla2 said:

I can tell you right now why there were so many empty seats-no Michelle Kwan. Her impact on the sport was enormous. Until someone comes along with her star power, this is what we will have.

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As correct as this might be, might. I have to wonder when looking at the popularity until MK hit and started dominating. I think she carried the biggest fan base, but the others that were not as "swooned" by her drizzled off over a few years. And I believe there was not the exsposure to other greats - in 2001 I was the only person I knew that knew who Fumie or Irina were, and even though people could say "I know that face" they never could place the name Sasha with her image. Is it possable the sport having one major focus like MK was hurting FS?

The bulk of the following is mainly intended to be seen as from the causal FS fan or just sports in general - possibly even the ones that were once in but fell away.

The popularity of MK was good for MKs crowd, but it did not transcend into the whole sport. IMO this was poor "marketing" of FS and only MK. It gave a number of people the impression there was one great skater to watch but out side of her????? You can be a fan of a sport that only has one super star? Now we FS junkies were aware of others, because we wanted more naturally, but others not as evolved or casual sports observer would have heard Michelle this, MK that and saw a couple of faces who the recognized but subconsciously thought if they were any good.....

So I could be totally wrong, but the facts are, as years past and she dominated, the sports popularity was declining. Was it because people would perceive that her fans were fans like that of a hollywood starlet, rather than a sports competitor? Did they not take it seriously - as MK being the sports great that she is / was?

If 90% of the fans that were asked why they thought John Elway was great and would have responded, " I think he has a great personality and looks really nice, his uniform fits him so good out there...I mean, he is just the coolest!"
YES that is over exaggerative but I think my point is there. If there is no mention (even constant) of how they are as a sportsman, they are more often going to be thought of as a celebrity by someone who is not already a fan of them as a "sportsperson."
JAT really, but why don't MORE people take FS as more of a Sport? Sports fans get in arguments, defend their players, etc... Lets put it this way, no one gets away with saying "****"skaya around me

I think the more "bumperstickers and T-shirts" are going to show a fan base too. ETA, tote bags too.

SeaniBu said:

JAT really, but why don't MORE people take FS as more of a Sport?

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I personally do not get caught up in this “is figure skating a sport” argument. It will never really be thought of as a sport as long as skaters are scored not just by what they do but also by how pretty they look doing it.

It will never really be thought of as a sport as long as men dress up in bangles and beads, women in theatrical makeup show their panties, and everyone steps and sways to the lovely music.

To make figure skating into a “real sport,” the skaters would have to wear ugly uniforms, helmets (at least the pairs skaters), and would also be allowed to smash their competitors in the mouth as they went up for a triple Lutz.

But we already have hockey. And football. And many others. So why do we need figure skating at all?

I for one am quite content for figure skating to have its own unique niche, with one foot in the sports camp and the other in entertainment.

why does it matter whether or not people think it's a "sport". I happen not to but I still like it for the most part. It's "different".

As for empty seats- maybe a combination of price and advertising. And notice you hardly ever see promos for figure skating on TV any more (except for CBS and Ice Wars). It's not enough to just show it- people have to know it's on too, right?

Seanibu

I think you have made a good point that maybe Michelle was bad for the sport -once she left it. We expect so much from our skaters now because Michelle the Magnificent maintained such a high standard for so many years. Irina was her worthy rival. That is gone now and we are left with a younger crop of skaters and there are currently no head to head competitions in women's skating. Maybe there will be soon i.e. Kimmie vs Ando vs. Asada. That would certainly revive the sport. I rewatched Kimmie's LP at SA on YOUTUBE and was very impressed. She has a ton of potential. She is also rock solid when she gets her game face on.

I never thought of it that way. Weren't there skaters loved as much as MK in the past? and once they were gone, FS survived and then another star came along? I think the same thing will happen here.

Something needs to develop. Now is probably the first true changing of the guard in many years. MK is gone, Irina is gone, Arakawa is gone, Cohen is gone. The only real American star now is Kimmie, and as her performance at SA showed, she's probably not going to be a one-hit wonder (barring injury/unforeseen circumstances).

There's also Japanese star Mao Asada who is developing, Miki Ando attempting to make a comeback, and Korean Yu-Na Kim making her first appearance in seniors.

In Ladies, not much else happening.

The promotional idea is good but unless you have transportation your usally stuck to what evers close to the areana.
Agree USFSA needs to do more advertising. When you purchase your tickets for Skate America it's really a crap shoot as to who will be there, most of us buy our tickets long before the rosters are out. I go for the enjoyment of skating and if one of my favorites is there that's a bonus.

Just quick question anyone know where it will be next year?

SeaniBu said:

The popularity of MK was good for MKs crowd, but it did not transcend into the whole sport. IMO this was poor "marketing" of FS and only MK. It gave a number of people the impression there was one great skater to watch but out side of her????? You can be a fan of a sport that only has one super star?

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Well, I think there are two points to be made. First, if you are talking about fans in the U.S., you can't tell the public who they want to see. If they want to see Michelle, they want to see Michelle, no matter how much "marketing" you do.

If you tell a Broadway audience, "Sorry, the star won't be performing today, you get the understudy instead" -- well, you better not say it too often.

Nor can you tell the paying public, these guys and gals are not performers, darn it, they're athletes, so stop liking beautiful and crowd pleasing performances and start acting more like sports fans. The public tells us, we don't tell the public.

The second point is, if you want to say, "Hey, there are other skaters out there, too," then you have to produce them. Talk won't do it. How are you going to promote U.S. Nationals during the eight consecutive years that Michelle won the national title -- hey, everybody, come out and see Tonia Kwiatkowski, Nicole Bobek, Angela Nikodinov, Naomi Nari Nam, Sarah Hughes, Jenny Kirk, Sasha Cohen and Kimmie Meissner compete for the second and third spots on the podium?

The one time they did have a real contest was 1997 and 1998, when Tara recieved as much publicity as Michelle. I agree that this was a good thing for figure skating in the U.S. But you can't blame Michelle that Tara retired at 16 and no-one else came along to accept the challenge.

Red Dog said:

Weren't there skaters loved as much as MK in the past? and once they were gone, FS survived and then another star came along?

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I think only Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill. Maybe Kristi Yamaguchi. On the men's side, Scott Hamilton and Brian Boitano also had that star quality that made them popular -- or at least known -- beyond the circle of dedicated skating fans.

Of course Sonia Henie was the first transcendent star of the sport. I am not sure how famous and beloved skaters in other countries have been, such as Irina Rodnina or Katarina Witt.