"Impossible" Jumps | Golden Skate

"Impossible" Jumps

icesk8erdude4e

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Here list all Jumps/ Jump Combinations that you'd like to see performed which are impossible. I'll start with mine.

-Quadruple Axel
-Quad-Quad combo
-triple lutz-triple flip
-triple axel-halfloop-triple axel
-a quintuple jump
-triple lutz-halfloop-triple flip

Well, I think that the quadruple axel will definately within the next 20 years be tried somewhere because of this point system, i am a skater as well and my goal is to be the first to land it in competition and in combination. I am going to try and qualify for the games in '14 or in '18 and in one of those Free Skates if I make it there i'm going to attempt two quadruple axels.

The triple lutz-triple flip is something that I don't think has ever been done because of the fact that to do them in combination, you have to do the second jump in the opposite direction, and I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.

Quints i'm sure will be seen within the next 20 years as well.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I love the triple Lutz - opposite foot triple flip! :rock:

Which do you think will come first, a quint toe or a quint Salchow?
 

SeaniBu

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
I do not believe the quintuple will ever be made unless they have ramps involved. JMO Well maybe the toe if they have bionic knees.
 
Last edited:

Mafke

Medalist
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Generally speaking, adding more revolutions is a big bore for me (if I could I'd ban quads on reasons of general health and/or aesthetics - it's usually an ugly approach into an ugly jump landed in an ugly manner, if it fails it tends to drain the life out of a program).

I'd love to see some seldom used jumps and longer sequences (that are probably more challenging than grinding out another revolution). For example:

double one-foot axel- triple salchow - double loop - double toe loop

double inside axel - double toe

triple flip - double half-loop(?) triple salchow

axel into single axel into double axel into single axel into axel

toe loop - double toe - triple toe - double toe - toe loop

double reverse walley - double toe

double axel - half loop - double salchow - double loop - double toe - half loop - double flip


And finally:

double loop (or double toe) into a double lutz

I think this is theoretically almost possible in terms of edges but _extremely_ unlikely in terms of physics
 

gio

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
:rock: thread!!!

I think that some are really impossible to do. It is fantaphysics, but I would like to see:

-double (or triple half loop)
-double (or triple walley)
-double (or triple inside axel)
-double (or triple toeless lutz)
-one foot axel into a triple flip
-a triple flip landed on the opposite foot into a triple flip
-a double/triple/quad combo
-a cantilever into a triple jump
-hydroblading into a triple jump
-a triple jump into a spin
-a triple jump with both hands in the air (a Tano triple with both hands)
-a double split jump
-a delayed triple jump
-a sit triple jump
-a tuck triple jump
 

gio

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
I'd love to see some seldom used jumps and longer sequences (that are probably more challenging than grinding out another revolution).

I completely agree with you! Instead of doing all this quads it will be more interesting to do multijump combos and sequences. Unfortunately the ISU doesn't allow this.

I'd like to see a

-triple loop, double loop, half loop, double flip, half loop, double sal, double toe
-triple axel, hops, double axel, hops, delayed axel, hops, one foot axel
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
:rock: thread!!!

-a cantilever into a triple jump

Look no further than Ilia Klimkin - he does a cantalever down the diagonal of the rink into a triple jump (i forget which).

-hydroblading into a triple jump
I thought Tim Goebel did this in his Olympic Free skate at SLC - a hydroblade into a triple loop.

-a triple jump into a spin

I'm pretty sure this is do-able but might look too much like a mistake on a triple jump to warrant doing it. drills for getting double and triple jumps often involve landing the jump you can and then backspinning on teh landing and checking out. Also spinning jumping up for a double or triple and landing and spinning. Often for salchows and loops.

Ant
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Landing a sommersault on one foot. I only know one skater that can do it and it's a Lady!

If they considered the sommersault too acrobatic, they should check out some of those skating moves which come directly from acrobatics and vaudeville.

Joe
 

ElFuego

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
The triple lutz-triple flip is something that I don't think has ever been done because of the fact that to do them in combination, you have to do the second jump in the opposite direction, and I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.


Rohene Ward has the reverse 2x (and has put it into his programs on occasion), and has practiced reverse triples up through the lutz.

Also his SP last year had a cantilever into a 3z.
 

ElFuego

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Landing a sommersault on one foot. I only know one skater that can do it and it's a Lady!

If they considered the sommersault too acrobatic, they should check out some of those skating moves which come directly from acrobatics and vaudeville.

It has nothing to do with it being too acrobatic and everything to do with the fact that the take-off doesn't use skating skills.

(Also, aside from Bonaly, haven't Ryan Bradley and Stacey Pensgen landed their somersaults on 1 foot?)
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Rohene Ward has the reverse 2x (and has put it into his programs on occasion), and has practiced reverse triples up through the lutz.

Also his SP last year had a cantilever into a 3z.

I think last season he was attempting a reverse double axel/normal rotation 3 sal sequence.

Here is a practice clip of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMFJuZgc1w

He does a reverse double axel/reverse half loop/side hop to the left/normal triple salchow.

Saldy COP doesn't note the difficulty of doing a jump in the opposite direction.

Ant
 

emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
thanks for the clip - i :love: rohene!!

I like these jump combinations - sequences that you all are talking about way more than the idea of more rotations. I used to LOVE watching quads, but i agree with the poster who said, in addition to injuries, the quad saps too much out of program when it fails and often has ugly set-up. So, i guess now I really appreciate when a quad is well executed and admire that skater (like, say, Lambiel and others) but also really don't argue that it is THE TEST for a male skater (like I used to) anymore (or shouldn't be I guess is what I mean).

That said, I'm still of two minds or confused about he scoring of this - joubert and others have complained the quad doesn't get enough credit, and since, to do it well without disrupting the pogram is so hard, do people here think it should be worth more? If it is, are you worried we'll see more bad quads and injuries just hoping to get more points?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
-triple lutz-halfloop-triple flip

This has been done. By Evgeny Plyushenko at NHK one year, I think 1998 or 99.

-triple axel-halfloop-triple axel

Why a half loop? That would put the skater on a back inside edge (of the left foot for a counterclockwise jumper). Then they'd probably have to take a couple of steps to get onto the forward outside edge, in ways that would dilute the effect of the sequence. Might as well just do a tap-toe or mazurka in between. (Common with single axels at low levels, I think Surya Bonaly and Jessica Mills used to do this with doubles.)

Or after the half loop, turn a back inside three onto the forward outside takeoff edge. That would be very impressive, but I really doubt it would work with a triple axel. Let's see it with single or double first.

We have seen triple axel-half loop-triple salchow and -triple flip, if that's what you're thinking of, from Yagudin and Plyushenko respectively.

The triple lutz-triple flip is something that I don't think has ever been done because of the fact that to do them in combination, you have to do the second jump in the opposite direction, and I don' t know one skater that can jump in both directions.

You mean triple flip-triple lutz? The problem with putting a flip at the end of the combination is not that you need to reverse direction, but that you need to get onto the back inside edge. So a half loop in between would do it (and has, see above), or intentionally landing the lutz on the "wrong" foot (not likely with a triple), or changing direction with a change of edge to (which, like the half loop, would make it not a true combination).

Anyway, just as toe loops and loops are the jumps that can be put at the end of normal back outside landings for true combinations, and salchows and flips at the end of jumps with back inside landings (one-foot axel, one-foot double salchow, half loop), the obvious second jump in a combination that rotates both directions would be a lutz. Any jump landed on a back outside edge as normal, followed by a lutz in the opposite direction. The most I would expect to see at this point even at the highest levels would be a double jump in the bad direction and a triple in the good direction. E.g., we have already seen reverse walley into normal triple lutz. So maybe start with reverse double toe into triple lutz. Or triple anything into reverse double lutz.

Again, not likely with triple-triple combinations. I've seen it done with singles at low levels, and there are a few skaters who *can* do some triples in both directions but not consistently enough to put them in combination (e.g., Rohene Ward).

What I'd like to see is the code of points add an automatic +1 or +2 to the GOE for a combination or sequence with double or higher jumps in each direction, or a bonus to the base value of the jump performed in the opposite direction or to the value of the combo/sequence as a whole. It would be harder to reward a solo jump done in the skater's bad direction because there wouldn't be any immediate cues within the jump itself that it's an "opposite direction" jump for that skater; it would look just like a normal jump by a skater who jumps the other way. But if the tech specialists can keep track of each skater's normal jump direction and identify the exceptions, then add a bonus to base value or GOE for those too.

Some of gio's suggestions seem like fun ideas. Just need to make sure the system would reward them. Putting walleys and inside axels, at least as doubles, into the scale of values (maybe singles too but specifying that singles of those jumps don't block jump boxes) would encourage people to master the doubles. And someday maybe eventually someone could do a triple. I think the doubles of those jumps need to be worth more than double axels, possibly more than the easier triples.

And I'm still waiting for double one-foot axel into triple salchow.
 
Last edited:

tae04

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
I think on Rohene Ward's website he talked about how he's practice a 3lutz-3lutz combo and other weird combinations with reverse jumping in the past.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
I think on Rohene Ward's website he talked about how he's practice a 3lutz-3lutz combo and other weird combinations with reverse jumping in the past.
Not quite -- he was once asked if he thought he could ever do a reverse 3lutz (clockwise) to regular (CCW) 3lutz combination, and he replied that it might be possible but only with a LOT of training time. As far as I know, Ward has landed all the triples in his reverse direction in practice except for the flip and axel.

I think last season he was attempting a reverse double axel/normal rotation 3 sal sequence.

Here is a practice clip of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxMFJuZgc1w

He does a reverse double axel/reverse half loop/side hop to the left/normal triple salchow.
Yes, but he took this sequence out of his long program after 2005 Liberty (this clip was amateur practice video shot at Liberty in the summer of 2005). Ward did land a reverse double axel to regular triple salchow sequence in long program at 2002 Nationals in LA (his senior debut).

Sadly COP doesn't note the difficulty of doing a jump in the opposite direction.
Not yet, anyway! ;)
 

floskate

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Some cool ideas - none of which we'll probably ever see so long as CoP is in place. Robin Cousins used to do very cool combo's in the 1970's incorporating 1ft axels, 1ft 2sals, 1.5 flips etc.

Wierdest I ever saw was Brian Pockar at 1978 Skate Canada. In the SP they used to have a prescribed double jump for the combos and that year it was double flip. So instead of doing 2f-3t or 2f-2l as most of the guys did, he did a 1ft 3sal straight into double flip. It was messy and he stumbled on the landing of the flip but a very cool idea :rock:
 
Top