Weird things afoot...

dutchherder · Dec 3, 2006

Wow, for as long as I can remember, USA's strengths have been thus:
1. ladies
2. men
3. pairs
4. dance

If this year's early season can be trusted, could we be turning into this:

1. dance
2. men
3. pairs
4. ladies

Thoughts?

Mathman · Dec 3, 2006

That's certainly true about dance. Belbin and Agosto are legitimate world podium contenders. Gregory and Petukov are just coming into their own. Mathews and Zovozin and Davis and White :love:

are beginning their charge.

Navarro and Bommentre did well in the Grand Prix, and the U.S. has two teams in the Junior Grand prix Finals, Samuelson and Bates and Hubble and Hubble.

For the ladies, I think it only seems dismal because the Japanese women are so strong this year. I expect Kimmie Meissner to be in the mix with Mao Asada and Yu-na Kim. Second U.S. lady Emily Hughes (6th at the Olympics, 8th at Worlds) isn't chopped liver. Caroline Zhang and Rachael Flatt are just around the corner.

(But yeah, it's not like Michelle and Tara in 1998.)

hockeyfan228 · Dec 3, 2006

Mathman said:
(But yeah, it's not like Michelle and Tara in 1998.)

And thank goodness for small favors. It's nice to see a lot of skaters from many nations in the mix. The only thing that makes me sad is that there are so many good young dance teams in the US (finally!), and, practically speaking, one spot they're all fighting for.

Zuranthium · Dec 3, 2006

Yeah, I really dislike the qualification system. Limiting skaters' chances to go to the Worlds based upon the performances of other people from the year before is stupid.

~Z

Mathman · Dec 3, 2006

That's because the unit of membership in the ISU is the national federation, not the individual skater. No skaters are "members" of the ISU. So only a national federation, not a skater, can qualify for a spot at worlds.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 3, 2006

But American skaters can join the USFS which is a member of the ISU, and qualifications for the Worlds is up to the USFS. I am not aware of any rule that says the ISU can object to a skater who has been recommended by the USFS.

Joe

Mathman · Dec 3, 2006

The point that Zuranthium was making was that there ought to be a chance for skaters to qualify on their own merit. So for instance if the top five skaters in the world happened to be Japanese, they would all get to go to worlds because they are the five top skaters.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 3, 2006

But whose subjectivity shall we use to name the top skaters in the Worlds, presently? Maybe 5 unbiased Japanese judges? hmmm., and 5 Russian dance judges. We could get the whole kit and kaboodle out of N.America.

Joe

Mathman · Dec 3, 2006

I guess they could go by the ISU rankings.

But I think where the "unfairness" comes in is this. Suppose Estonia has a pretty good skater who does well at Worlds and, all by herself, qualifies two skaters for the next Worlds for her country. Then she retires.

The number two and number three skaters from her country get to go to worlds. Maybe they can't skate a lick, but they still get to ride the other girl's coattails.

In neighboring Lithuania, no one from that country scored well at worlds. So they only get to send one skater the next year, even though the Lithuanians may have two skaters both better than the two Estonian girls.

Life's unfair.

SeaniBu · Dec 3, 2006

Mathman said:
Life's unfair.

And sometimes it is. The "coin" must flip once and awhile.

It is good there is a shift IMO. It needs to go that way for balance and incentive. JMO

hockeyfan228 · Dec 4, 2006

Other sports have ways around a national quota. There are x number of players who qualify for Wimbledon, and the rest have to go through qualifying rounds to earn spots.

Even figure skating does, in a way, in the half dozen spots earned in a qualifying competition before each Olympics.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 4, 2006

Present ISU World Standings have Slutskaya in 1st place and YuNa in 10th. There is no Cohen listed.

Of the 10 listed, 5 are Japanese, 2 are Russian, and 1 each from Canada, US and Korea.

Joe

michaela77 · Dec 4, 2006

Figure Skating enjoys popularity in the US only when the ladies' strongest contenders are American. When I mentioned the upcoming FS Grand Prix in Russia to some people in New York, 10 out of 10 didn't know what I was talking about. Shame.

Mathman · Dec 4, 2006

Joesitz said:
Present ISU World Standings have Slutskaya in 1st place and YuNa in 10th. There is no Cohen listed.

Cohen is #19.

And guess who is leading in points for this year? Julia Sebestyen (because she did the Ondrej Nepala in addition to doing well in the Grand prix.) Go Julia!

Michaela said:
Figure Skating enjoys popularity in the US only when the ladies' strongest contenders are American. When I mentioned the upcoming FS Grand Prix in Russia to some people in New York, 10 out of 10 didn't know what I was talking about. Shame.

But to be fair, I think that 10 out of 10 Americans would not know that there is a Grand Prix of Figure Skating going on no matter who was in it. Plenty of opinions, though, about who's number two in college football, Florida or Michigan.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 4, 2006

michaela77 said:
Figure Skating enjoys popularity in the US only when the ladies' strongest contenders are American. When I mentioned the upcoming FS Grand Prix in Russia to some people in New York, 10 out of 10 didn't know what I was talking about. Shame.

From the look of empty seats in Moscow, I would think the popularity of the Sport is declining faster round the world.

Joe

Nigel · Dec 4, 2006

Joesitz said:
From the look of empty seats in Moscow, I would think the popularity of the Sport is declining faster round the world.

Joe

We have been equally disappointed in attendance at the GP events this year...at least from what we have viewed on television. And here in the US...we have friends who live near SA event and in Cincinnati, OH (first fluff event of the year) and from what they said, not much publicity by the local media for either event. Seems indicative of a general down turn in interest to us as well. Both here and abroad. :disapp:

hockeyfan228 · Dec 4, 2006

I'm very surprised about Moscow, though. Moscow Worlds were packed, even the Men's final, after Plushenko had to withdraw and there were really no Russian contenders for the Men's podium. And the arena is not very big.

SeaniBu · Dec 4, 2006

Mathman said:
But to be fair, I think that 10 out of 10 Americans would not know that there is a Grand Prix of Figure Skating going on no matter who was in it. Plenty of opinions, though, about who's number two in college football, Florida or Michigan.

Clear enough, but to be really fair I would say 9.843 out of 10 :laugh:

And growing.

hockeyfan228 said:
I'm very surprised about Moscow, though. Moscow Worlds were packed, even the Men's final, after Plushenko had to withdraw and there were really no Russian contenders for the Men's podium. And the arena is not very big.

I was too, did you notice how they filled up (more) for the Men's comps though?:agree: Still surprised to see how many empties for any of it.

Mathman · Dec 4, 2006

hockeyfan228 said:
Other sports have ways around a national quota. There are x number of players who qualify for Wimbledon, and the rest have to go through qualifying rounds to earn spots.

Even figure skating does, in a way, in the half dozen spots earned in a qualifying competition before each Olympics.

I have a question about how that works. Like when Lu Chen had to go the qualifying route to get into 1998 Olympics (then she won the bronze medal!)

It's still the country than qualifies for the extra spot, right? So technically the Chinese Federation could have sent someone else instead of Chen, even though she was the one that won the spot for them?

SeaniBu · Dec 4, 2006

Mathman said:
I have a question about how that works. Like when Lu Chen had to go the qualifying route to get into 1998 Olympics (then she won the bronze medal!)

It's still the country than qualifies for the extra spot, right? So technically the Chinese Federation could have sent someone else instead of Chen, even though she was the one that won the spot for them?

I would too, I believe that was a similar situation with Miki going too - as well the Olys.????

Weird things afoot...

dutchherder

Mathman

hockeyfan228

Zuranthium

Match Penalty

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Mathman

SeaniBu

hockeyfan228

Joesitz (RIP)

michaela77

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Nigel

hockeyfan228

SeaniBu

Mathman

SeaniBu

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