- Joined
- Feb 28, 2005
They are already talking about this on FSU, it just came up on the usfs site.
Does someone else go now?
NC
Does someone else go now?
NC
Belbin and Agosto Withdraw from GPF!
- Thread starter Numbers Cruncher
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2004
Yes
Jana Khokhlova and Sergei Novitski of Russia has first dibs
If not, Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir will be the next in line
Jana Khokhlova and Sergei Novitski of Russia has first dibs
If not, Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir will be the next in line
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I don't doubt that there is some injury, as the article states, but I also don't think it's a coincidence that this is strategically probably the best thing for B/A should they really want to be considered contenders for the world podium. I think they were set to get pretty hammered by a number of teams at the GPF. Now they will basically come in unseaded for worlds, with lots of time to prepare and tweak beforehand.
Should be interesting to see who ends up fifth and sixth — K/S or G/P. I'm guessing neither team will place above that.
Should be interesting to see who ends up fifth and sixth — K/S or G/P. I'm guessing neither team will place above that.
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
My, my, how very convenient for B&A. And how miraculous that he should be fully recovered in just a week or two.
Seriously, though, its not such a big deal to me. They don't need to do GPF. They don't need the money, they don't need the exposure, they don't need the feedback from the judges. What they need is time to re-vamp their FD. It was so close between G&P and K&N for that last spot in the final, I'm actually glad that now K&N get to go, and hopefully G&P will skate better than at NHK and we can really see how the two teams compare. Obviously I want G&P to finish ahead, but I'm still glad for K&N and hope that both teams skate well and enjoy their first GPF.
Seriously, though, its not such a big deal to me. They don't need to do GPF. They don't need the money, they don't need the exposure, they don't need the feedback from the judges. What they need is time to re-vamp their FD. It was so close between G&P and K&N for that last spot in the final, I'm actually glad that now K&N get to go, and hopefully G&P will skate better than at NHK and we can really see how the two teams compare. Obviously I want G&P to finish ahead, but I'm still glad for K&N and hope that both teams skate well and enjoy their first GPF.
ITA with all of this. That free dance, IMHO, is just dull, dull, dull, and they are capable of much better. Perhaps Ben not being able to do lifts for a couple of weeks will allow them to experiment with much better content in between the lifts.
Regarding G/P vs. K/N -- I wonder, if K/N finish ahead of G/P, if a bunch of theories about a 2nd-tier "Russian political maneuvering" discussion (like the B/A vs. D/S debate since Cup of China) will begin.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think most comments I read about B&A just say that their FD is not good.
I wish someone could say emphatically, that either they are not skating Dance well this year or that their FD in itself is bad. Whichever a dance enthusiast chooses could they explain one or the other.
If it's a question of 'passion', how would you show that in the present FD?
Is passion required? If so shouldn't it be part of the judging?
If it's technique, then they need to work harder.
Joe
I wish someone could say emphatically, that either they are not skating Dance well this year or that their FD in itself is bad. Whichever a dance enthusiast chooses could they explain one or the other.
If it's a question of 'passion', how would you show that in the present FD?
Is passion required? If so shouldn't it be part of the judging?
If it's technique, then they need to work harder.
Joe
I think it boils down to politics. Russia's teams are being pushed this season (as in every season really). Belbin & Agosto's free-dance may not be as popular but its far more difficult than that of Domnina/Shabalin. Compare the footwork.
Belbin & Agosto do a lot more and do it better. There are too many places in Dom/Shabs free-dance where they are just gliding on two feet. They have a lot of wild arm movements in their choreography used to disguise all the stops and standstills in their program and to disguise the two foot skating and lack of difficulty in the footwork. The judges see this just as well as we do, but it's being overlooked, just as it was with Navka/Kastamarov who were known for the same kind of simplicity in their skating (this did not stop the judges giving them higher technical scores than teams who had more technical difficulty).
Belbin & Agosto do a lot more and do it better. There are too many places in Dom/Shabs free-dance where they are just gliding on two feet. They have a lot of wild arm movements in their choreography used to disguise all the stops and standstills in their program and to disguise the two foot skating and lack of difficulty in the footwork. The judges see this just as well as we do, but it's being overlooked, just as it was with Navka/Kastamarov who were known for the same kind of simplicity in their skating (this did not stop the judges giving them higher technical scores than teams who had more technical difficulty).
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Layman, I do agree that Belbin & Agosto are currently far better skaters than Domnina & Shabalin. However, that does not detract from the fact that IMHO B&A have a weak FD that is not nearly as polished as what we've come to expect from them.
Well, IMO, I have to agree with what Susie Wynne said about their FD at Cup of China: the theme is just too shallow for them. This kind of thing played much better 10, 15, 20 years ago than it does now, when it's all about DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA. So, yes, to a point, I think passion IS required, I don't think it needs to be taken to the extreme levels that some couples take it to, but some spark of that nature would be nice. I don't think their FD this year really allows for all of that just by nature of its theme. And I think passion is part of the judging; it would fall into the "expression" category, I should think. Or whatever all they're calling it these days under CoP.
If "passion" is wild facial expressions and helicopter arms, then the Russians, Domnina and Shabalin are certainly the best at expressing "passion."
If "passion" is all that's necessary this season, then Domnina/Shabalin will surely win the world title...they have it all: wild facial expressions, two-foot skating, simple footwork, wild arms...it worked for Navka/Kastamarov.
But, there is another school of ice dance that's derived from Ballroom Dancing, with real "Dance" music with a dance beat, fast and difficult footwork, difficult dance holds, elegance, charm and a sense of humour. That is what Belbin & Agosto are presenting with "That's Entertainment." To me, Fred & Ginger and American Ballroom dancing never go out of style.
I am glad that Belbin & Agosto have chosen a style that suits them, that they understand, that they are comfortable with, that they are good at, rather than try to fake it with a foreign style.
I think B&A's freedance really showcases and highlights their strengths (difficult footwork, speed, a great relationship between the two of them) and I am not so sure that a more "passionate" style of the kind exemplified by the Russians (angst, wild faces, wild arms, operatic themes, simple dance holds, simple footwork, standstills, dancing in place etc.) would work for them.
If "passion" is all that's necessary this season, then Domnina/Shabalin will surely win the world title...they have it all: wild facial expressions, two-foot skating, simple footwork, wild arms...it worked for Navka/Kastamarov.
But, there is another school of ice dance that's derived from Ballroom Dancing, with real "Dance" music with a dance beat, fast and difficult footwork, difficult dance holds, elegance, charm and a sense of humour. That is what Belbin & Agosto are presenting with "That's Entertainment." To me, Fred & Ginger and American Ballroom dancing never go out of style.
I am glad that Belbin & Agosto have chosen a style that suits them, that they understand, that they are comfortable with, that they are good at, rather than try to fake it with a foreign style.
I think B&A's freedance really showcases and highlights their strengths (difficult footwork, speed, a great relationship between the two of them) and I am not so sure that a more "passionate" style of the kind exemplified by the Russians (angst, wild faces, wild arms, operatic themes, simple dance holds, simple footwork, standstills, dancing in place etc.) would work for them.
Last edited:
If "passion" is wild facial expressions and helicopter arms, then the Russians, Domnina and Shabalin are certainly the best at expressing "passion."
That is the funniest and probably the best way to describe DomShab's FD.Absolutely priceless!
I think passion in necessary but every couple expresses passion differently, and it is all up to the judges preference for what type of "passion" they like. Either that or it depends on how many Russian judges are on panel or what Federation has paid top dollar for a high place finish.
I don't think D/S's dramatic passion (the helicopter arms and the intense expressions) is any better or less than B/A's passion (a happier more exuberant passion). It's just different. Truth be told, I don't love either teams program or the way they express "passion" this season.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Obviously 'passion' is what makes the Dance go round. Sturm und Drang should be a part of the PCS scores. Showing suffering in the facial expression genuinely or not is essential. Skaters who show joy in their dance should receive and automatic 3 pt. deduction.
Joe
Joe
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I like your thinking, Joe, but if that's the case, shouldn't teams who evoke serial murderers be the favorites for the Gold?
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2004
I am not a fan of B&A, not at all, but I would not say that they are not skating well, its just not a great program for them. I don't think it suits their style, and it really does not seem to be an appropriate program for a World Championship medalist team. I think that part of the problem is that the music itself does not lend itself to much emotional interpretation, not a lot of passion or excitement or elegence or anything. It just doesn't make for a powerful, impressive performance. I think it would be more appropriate as an exhibition program.
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2006
- Country
-
There's nothing intrinsicly American about Ballroom Dancing, it is danced and competed all over the world, and most of the dances originated outside of America.
As with the Scout movement, which was founded by Lord Baden-Powell in the UK, Americans always have to apropriate everything.
Getting back on topic, I'm sad to hear that B&A have withdrawn, and even if their FD is not as bad as people are saying [and I don't believe it is] in Dance if it is *perceived* to be a bad programme, I'm afraid it's difficult to shake off, and be seen with a fresh eye.
How many Serial Murderer free dances ARE there every season? Man. I guess you miss a lot when you don't get to see the stuff from the middle and lower ranks.
Actually, I think if done right, it could be a workable theme. German pair Schwarz & Meuller had a free skate several years ago (I want to say 96-97) with the theme of "Wife Beating". [I am NOT making this up; it was in International Figure Skating magazine at the start of that particular season]. Anyway, it would depend on the choreography.
How many Serial Murderer free dances ARE there every season? Man. I guess you miss a lot when you don't get to see the stuff from the middle and lower ranks.
Actually, I think if done right, it could be a workable theme. German pair Schwarz & Meuller had a free skate several years ago (I want to say 96-97) with the theme of "Wife Beating". [I am NOT making this up; it was in International Figure Skating magazine at the start of that particular season]. Anyway, it would depend on the choreography.
That was 98-99, when they dropped from 3rd in the world to 8th! But that doesn't beat Laetitia Hubert's theme the same year--prostitute on acid.
[I'm not making that one up, either]
Similar threads
