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Thread: "Legend" - who really is one?

  1. #16

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    Was I addressing my previous message to you? Since you revised yours, I will try to revise my.

    Universal rule #11 and 12 do not apply to Anke. We all know that Anke is the most fair minded skating fan.

    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Oh, I should've known everybody'll nail me [/quote]

    Everybody will nail you? Not really, some of us are responding to your message, it is part of the purpose of a forum right, exchange ideas?

    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I guess the right expression should've been "universally liked[/quote]

    No problem with your revised defintion. Although IMO some one "universally liked" is just a measurement of that athlete's popularity, not legend status. BTW, Kat Witt is universally liked in the States, she has a lot of <span style="color:fuchsia;font-size:x-small;">exposure</span> here. All the guys in the office like her, and none of them knows that she skates.

    First of all I do not believe any athlete can be universally liked. I definitely do not believe athletes who are worthy of legend status is universally liked. I think Tiger Woods is an international legend, is he universally liked, definitely not. Didn't some European fans try to trip him with their umbrellas in the Presidents cup? Whatever that USA v Europe thing once every other year.

    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>We all know there's only ONE conclusion, OK, why not finally point it out:We all know there's only ONE conclusion, OK, why not finally point it out:

    Rule No. 13:

    So far only one poster in this thread has listed Michelle Kwan as a legend as an international legend and an American legend . You may disagree.

    The others posters listed the following:
    Madge Syers - 2 votes
    Henie = 2 votes
    Button - 2 votes
    Protopopov - 3 votes
    Rodina - 3 votes
    T&D - 3 votes
    G&G - 3 votes
    Kurt - 3 votes
    Peggy 1 vote
    Elena Berezhnaya / Anton Sikharulidze - 2 votes
    - Alexei Yagudin - 2 votes
    - Katarina Witt - 2 votes
    - Scott Hamilton 2 votes
    - Oksana Baiul 2 votes
    - Curry/Cranston/Cousins 2 votes

    I may be wrong in counting, but my point is that the list of skaters are diverse. I hope there will be more discussion on this.

    Maybe for you there is no need for further discussion. But if Michelle Kwan ended up having more votes than others, then it is consistent with your definition of a legend, someone who is "universally liked".

  2. #17

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    Re: "Legend" - who really is one?

    INCENUT: Thanks for the great insight. And thanks so much for the words on Sonja. She is my ice queen. Her skating does not really fit in with what we do today, but I so love to watch her. And to think of what she did for skating...I love her. I love the history of skating. And I appreciate your points with you post.

  3. #18

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    Great writing, great propaganda! Chapeau! Seems you have a lot of outstanding qualities, unfortunately counting is not one of them ... However - since you obviously know it all, I'm impatiently looking forward to your first real contribution to this thread: The "coming out" of your list of legends; I'm sure it will be totally balanced and unbiased!


  4. #19

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    Re: EmiC!!!

    These two are the only skaters I would consider as legends so far:

    - Sonja Henie (three Olympic gold medals and 10 World golds)
    - Irina Rodnina (three Olympic gold medals and 10 World golds)

    Besides neither of them lost a World or Olympics title since they got their first win.

    As icons I could see:

    - Ulrich Salchow (based on statistics)
    - Karl Schäfer (ditto)
    - Magda Syers (ditto)
    - Gordeeva & Grinkov
    - Katharina Witt
    - Torvill & Dean
    - Richard Button (skating plus other activities, US icon)
    - Scott Hamilton (ditto)

    As very popular skaters of today (just giving the biggest names):

    - Michelle Kwan
    - Brian Boitano
    - Kurt Browning


  5. #20

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    Re: EmiC!!!

    I'd also add Midori Ito to my "icon" list (I forgot about her <img src= ALT=":o"> )

  6. #21

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    Who is a Legend?

    I reiterate my statement: Leave the title of <span style="colorurple;font-size:medium;">LEGEND</span> to the sports writers, and we can list our nominees (most likely our current favorites).


  7. #22

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    Re: Who is a Legend?


  8. #23

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    Re: Who is a Legend?

    I'm late! Is this the place to vote for Michelle?

    I think that it is premature to call anyone a "legend" while he or she is still competing. Only history can make that judgement.

    But the thing to remember about Michelle is this. She is not just the (seven time) United States Champion. She is the Champion of the World.


  9. #24

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    Re: Who is a Legend?

    Michelle is an icon now but she will be a legend.,

    I don't know but I think Tara could have been an icon but I don't think she is.

    Katia are universal all icons.

    Plushenko are icons (definitely in Russia)

    Legendary status is too hard to predict but I can tell you who aren't icons or legends.

  10. #25

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    legend/ icons


    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Legendary status is too hard to predict but I can tell you who aren't icons or legends[/quote]



    <blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>unfortunately counting is not one of them ... However - since you obviously know it all, I'm impatiently looking forward to your first real contribution to this thread: The "coming out" of your list of legends; I'm sure it will be totally balanced and unbiased[/quote]

    Anke, I can't count thats right. That is why we have professor Mathman here, he holds math court every day at 4 pm ET, or 10 pm Greenwich time. I don't have a complete list, Joesitz,and Lavendar do not have a list either. I do not know it all, just was forutnate enough to see one of your legend's <strong>(in)famous lost program</strong> at COI.

    This thread is a discussion on our ideas of legends, we can still contribute w/o making a list. BTW, I said Tiger Woods is a legend. Others athletes on my list: Russell and Chamberlain for sure, not old enough to watch their famous rivalry.

    I actually agreed with your inital definition of a legend, I even agreed with a few of your choices, just disagree with some others.

    I agree with Joesitz sports writers are more used to name legends.

  11. #26

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    Re: legend/ icons

    Well, my first thought was-whatever! Then I thought, why not?

    Ok, here's what I think. Both Dick Button and Peggy Fleming have referred to Michelle Kwan as a legend in figure skating. I think Dick Button is a legend, Brian Boitano is a legend, and G/G are legends. Toller Cranston and John Curry.

    Tiger Woods has been called a legend in the field of golf by some sports commentators. Muhammad Ali is a legend in boxing. Pete Sampras, John McEnroe, and Bjorn Bork along with Chris Evert, Martina Navratilova and Steffi Graf are all considered legends in the sport of tennis.

    Now I don't see any dead people up there. But there's plenty of legends that are no longer alive-i.e. John Lennon, Barry White, Secretariat (sorry, that's a horse), Man O' War, Seabiscuit. I mean, just depends on who writes the book!

  12. #27

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    Re: "Legend" - who really is one?

    Toller Cranston is definitely a legend in skating not only for his contributions to the sport, but for his flamboyant manner. Toller was also never afraid to express his opinion about judging and what goes on behind the scenes in skating. <em>Everyone</em> in Canada knows the name <strong>Toller</strong> is synonymous with figure skating.

    Donald Jackson, of course, is a legend for landing the first triple Lutz in a Worlds competition and for inspiring Canadian male skaters to "raise the bar higher."

    Barbara Ann Scott - She will always be "Canada's Sweetheart." There is even a Barbara Ann Scott Doll! She is still revered by her peers as well as generations of Canadian figure skaters.

    Robert Paul and Barbara Wagner - Probably the best pairs team Canada has produced - four time World champions and Olympic champions as well. They definitely left their "mark" on figure skating and are role models for Canadian pairs.

    Of course, I would also add:

    Karen Magnussen
    Kurt Browning
    Elvis Stojko
    Brian Orser
    Barbara Underhill and Paul Martini
    Bourne and Kraatz

    My non-Canadian list includes:

    The Protopopovs
    Irina Rodnina
    Torvill and Dean
    Sonja Henie

  13. #28

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    Re: "Legend" - who really is one?

    Lots of favoritres and ethnic and national consciousness in these selections!

    Again what is the criteria for the term Legend?


  14. #29

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    My Legends List

    Sonja Henie
    Carol Heiss
    The Protopopovs
    Peggy Fleming
    Janet Lynn
    Dorothy Hamill
    Scott Hamilton
    Torvill & Dean
    Katarina Witt (Never my favorite, but her dominance during the 80s was exceptional and earned)
    G & G
    M & D
    Midori Ito
    Chen Lu ("Rach" from 96 Worlds was enough for me!)

    After they've retired I would definitely add:
    Alexei Yagudin
    Michelle Kwan - Impressive dominance, wonderful attitude and extraordinary skating! Incredible how such an uncomplicated person could provoke such volatile and complicated discussions! Let those that adore her do that and those that don't follow their own course, it doesn't require a great mind to realize that and allow everyone their own personal preference.

  15. #30

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    Re: My Legends List

    I think a skating fan's choices of who is a legend and who isn't comes purely from an emotional and nationalistic viewpoint.

    For instance, someone who is a huge Irina Slutskaya fan would probably be less likely to name Michelle Kwan a "legend" because Michelle has had the audacity to beat their hero, Irina, on a few occasions.

    Same thing can be said on the side of nationalism. How many Canadians would be quick to consider Brian Boitano a legend? The odds of that are slim to none. Most Canadians would rather die first. But, I think that in the U.S. Boitano's status is legendary.

    I've noticed that most Canadians on this thread have named Kurt Browning as a legend or icon. As an American, I think Browning is a legend in Canada, but not a legend in the U.S. In skating circles he is, perhaps, an icon, but the average American doesn't know who Kurt Browning is.

    Legendary status is in the eye of the beholder.

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