Judging controversy

chuckm · Feb 15, 2007

Joesitz said:
Of course, the Russians are always better. Griazev will beat Talkehashi, Joubert, Oda, Weir and Lysacek at worlds. Am I correct?

Joe.

Griazev won the Russian National Championship, then finished 16th at Europeans. Bronze medalist Dobrin placed 18th. So far, the only Russian man certain to go to Worlds is Lutai, based on his 5th place at Europeans.

There is to be a skate-off next week in Russia to determine the Men's and Ladies' teams. Both Men and Ladies have had such bad results this year that no matter who gets picked, it's a crapshootl.

Most likely Petrova/Tikhonov and (if her injury is healed) Kawaguchi / Smirnov will be the main Pairs team in Tokyo, but they will have a hard time medaling when there's 3 Chinese teams and the German team to deal with.

There is no hope of a medal in Singles, and only a very faint hope in Pairs. The only sure-fire medalwinner for the Russians is DomShabs, and that's why I feel they will be pushed hard for the gold medal.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 15, 2007

Hsuhs said:
They won't lose. If one of them loses though (I don't know what they have to do for that. To WD, maybe?), it will make B/A's chances for that bronze better.

You are talking collusion. With whom are the Americans colluding with, may I ask?

Hsuhs · Feb 16, 2007

You are talking collusion. With whom are the Americans colluding with, may I ask?

No, I'm talking about my irrational feelings. They also tell me Takahashi might win men's.

skater 17 · Feb 16, 2007

Thank you Mathman, It was an intresting read. I hope worlds will be judged fairly and the best skaters are rewarded reguardless what country they represent. Their is so much talent out there it is exciting when everyone skates well and it's a nail bitter until the end.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 16, 2007

Hsuhs said:
No, I'm talking about my irrational feelings. They also tell me Takahashi might win men's.

Takahashi winning the Men's Division is not an irrational happening. It is a realistic feeling for me, but there are also Oda and Joubert and maybe Buttle with realistic possibilities.

My feeling about the Mens is that the winner will be the one with a clean quad and a clean quad combo along with a clean LP and passable spins and choreography. It seems to me to be Joubert but I would not bet on it mostly because of the venue which is in Tokyo.

Joe

jennylovskt · Feb 16, 2007

Thanks, Mathman, the information is really helpful.

Spun Silver · Feb 16, 2007

Joe, sorry if you've already explained this - but WHY do you expect favoritism toward the Japanese men when there are no Asian, let alone Japanese judges in their contests?

The crowd noise can work either way, no?

Mathman · Feb 16, 2007

I think part of the home court advantage is that the judges are only human and they get caught up in the excitement of the moment just like everyone else.

No one likes to be booed, and if you can send the audience home happy -- sports is entertainment first and foremost, after all -- everyone profits.

SeaniBu · Feb 16, 2007

It sounds like the factor being considered is ONLY the crowds effect on the Judges when cheering in favor. Do you all not believe that it has a positive effect on the skater and their performance too?

Spun Silver · Feb 16, 2007

Home crowd noise can also be Big Pressure for skaters. Big weight for 1 pair of young shoulders. It can be nice to be an underdog.

SeaniBu · Feb 16, 2007

Spun Silver said:
Home crowd noise can also be Big Pressure for skaters. Big weight for 1 pair of young shoulders. It can be nice to be an underdog.

True, there are different results for different skater from the same "enthusiasm." Take for example Joannie's Skate Canada LP. While the course COULD be questionable, her LP was FANTASTIC for her.

btw, if the Rachael you are referring to in your signature is Rachael Flatt, she appears to spell it Rachael, not Rachel.
http://www.usfigureskating.org/AthleteBio.asp?id=30119

I am "a fine on to talk" when it comes to spelling, but came across this when Joe started attracting my attention to her, and I was just prior to that corrected on spelling Sarah - instead of Sara.

Spun Silver · Feb 16, 2007

Ooops! Corrected. Thanks.

Mathman · Feb 16, 2007

I was focusing on the possible effects of the "home crowd" on the judges because the context was "judging controversies." Like 2004 Worlds in Dortmund, where Lindemann won a squeaker over Lambiel for bronze. They both skated great -- for Lindemann, the best performance of his career -- and I think the judges were pleased that they could with good conscience reward the home town boy with good marks.

About the effect on the skater, as Spun Silver says it could go either way. But I have to think that nine times out of ten it helps the skater a lot when the audience is supportive. You might feel nervous -- what else is new? -- but it has to be better than skating before a stony-face and hostile audience that is hoping that you will fail so someone else can win.

Audiences in Japan, however, are uniformly polite to visitors and not rabidly boisterous in any case, so maybe this effect will not be so pronounced in Tokyo.

SeaniBu · Feb 16, 2007

Mathman said:
Audiences in Japan, however, are uniformly polite to visitors and not rabidly boisterous in any case, so maybe this effect will not be so pronounced in Tokyo.

I must believe that is more than true. Japanese are so so so nice in general. It amazes me the resounding applause you hear for all skaters when viewing via TV. I bet the energy is fantastic for everyone at a Japanese event..

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 17, 2007

Spun Silver said:
Joe, sorry if you've already explained this - but WHY do you expect favoritism toward the Japanese men when there are no Asian, let alone Japanese judges in their contests?

The crowd noise can work either way, no?

SS - Ya know you're correct. I must have wrote that before I was aware of the possible judges.

thanks for the nudge.

Joe

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 17, 2007

Spun Silver said:
The crowd noise can work either way, no?

Indeed. All skaters have extreme pressure at Worlds. It's how they handle it. Some like Kwan was exceptional even when she wasn't skating well. Sasha was so so. Sometimes well, other times, not so well. I haven't figured out Kimmie yet.
Joe

Hsuhs · Feb 17, 2007

There was just one Japanese judge at NHK Trophy this year:

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpjpn06/SEG002OF.HTM

Some ppl believe Daisuke was given way too high marks.

Judging controversy

chuckm

Joesitz (RIP)

Hsuhs

skater 17

Joesitz (RIP)

jennylovskt

Spun Silver

Mathman

SeaniBu

Spun Silver

SeaniBu

Spun Silver

Mathman

SeaniBu

Joesitz (RIP)

Joesitz (RIP)

Hsuhs

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