The thread in which you point out errors by the technical specialist(s) | Golden Skate

The thread in which you point out errors by the technical specialist(s)

Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
The thread in which you point out errors by the technical specialist(s)

I'm going to point out a couple that haven't been debated much (like Kimmie's 3/3's, Lambiel's clean 3Axle at Worlds last year, etc). Here's one I just noticed:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CXki1fI8ejo

Look at the spin Johnny does after his Triple Flip. It's a sit spin with a change of foot and two changes of variation. It was graded as a Level 1, however:

http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006/OWG06_Men_SP_Scores.pdf

HUH?

Another from the Olympics, this time from Matt Savoie's program:

http://www.isufs.org/results/owg2006/OWG06_Men_FS_Scores.pdf

His first Lutz is called as a double, but look at the program:

(okay, I actually can't find it right now...it seems to have disappeared off Youbtube)

It's clearly a Triple, just double footed.

~Z
 
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H

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Look at the spin Johnny does after his Triple Flip. It's a sit spin with a change of foot and change of position. It was graded as a Level 1, however:
Click to expand...

I've analyzed this particular spin since Johnny is my fave :love: and I love his spins. Here is a spin vid I made :

http://rapidshare.com/files/17800048/JWe_Spin.WMV.html

This spin is called Spin Change Foot One Position, its Base Value for Level 1 is 1.3. In the vid Johnny's doing a CSSp (change of foot Sit Spin).

I've also found levels criteria for this kind of spin:
http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-179513-196731-105514-0-file,00.pdf

LEVELS OF DIFFICULLTY
Single Skating, Season 2006-2007
Number of features for Levels: 2 for Level 2, 3 for Level 3, 4 for Level 4

Spin in one position with change of foot:

1)1 difficult variations (Johnny's done that)
2) Second difficult variation (counts only if these two variations are on different feet) (this one is arguable)
3) Difficult change of foot (Nope)
3) Backward entrance or variation of flying entrance (not regular flying camel) (Nope)
4) On both edges in one position (on both feet counts twice) (Nope)
5) Both directions immediately following each other (Nope)
(c)

Yes, I think It could have been given Level 2. Depends on what you consider (or don't consider) a "difficult variation". And - of course - on the name of the skater ;)
 
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Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
He DEFINITELY has a second diffucult variation. The first is going into the catch-leg and the second is going into the cannonball.

~Z
 
Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
I should add that he's doing pretty much the exact same change-of-foot sitspin that I practice right now and that's what made me take notice. I was like "Huh?? I know I'm doing more than a level 1".

~Z
 
H

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
He DEFINITELY has a second diffucult variation. The first is going into the catch-leg and the second is going into the cannonball.
Click to expand...

Well, this spin is obviously considered to be a very easy one. Everyone can do it. It's the easiest sit spin with a change of foot, ever :laugh: :eek:hwell: :unsure:

I too would like to know why it was given level 1 (there is no way to find it out, yes?)
 
Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
I checked the scores for his Worlds performance and he was given a level 2 for the spin there. Although I can't find a video of his short program for Worlds on Youbtube so I'm not sure if he did something different there.

Hsuhs said:
Well, this spin is obviously considered to be a very easy one. Everyone can do it. It's the easiest sit spin with a change of foot, ever.
Click to expand...

Are you being sarcastic? :confused:

~Z
 
Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
K...I've just watched it too. He had a different arm position in the cannonball portion of his spin but that's it. That alone wouldn't raise the level. I'm pretty sure they simply got it wrong at the Olympics.

~Z
 
Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Erm, nevermind, yours specifically states it states a 2006-2007 date. OOPS!

Hmm...there's a couple small things I dislike about those rules. If you do a spin with a difficult variation of position, it's still a level 1. You have to do something else to make it level 2. That doesn't make sense.

EDIT: Although, it looks like the rules for last season would indeed have Johnny's spin as a level 1 because two difficult variations were only considered as one element. Bah. I need to write up a perfect system and submit it to the ISU!

~Z
 
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Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
No, that rules doesn't mean you need two variations on each foot. What I meant is that rule was only counted as one single element (though it now counts as two) and you needed two elements to get a level 2 spin.

~Z
 
H

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
The one that was used in 2005/2006 season.

And why were 2 difficult variations counted as one element back then? The rule, as it is now, says nothing about elements, you just need variations.
 
Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Hsuhs said:
And why were 2 difficult variations counted as one element back then?
Click to expand...

I have no idea. Just the way it was written.

Hsuhs said:
The rule, as it is now, says nothing about elements, you just need variations.
Click to expand...

No, you still need a certain amount of elements..."features". 2 for a level 2, 3 for a level 3, 4 for a level 4. In the old rules a single difficult variation within this kind of spin was nothing and you needed two for it to count as a feature.

So the new rules for this season are better written for those kinds of spins, although I don't like the new rule in combination spins where the variations have to be in different positions to count.

A bit of red tape going on.

~Z
 
H

Hsuhs

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
Wait a sec. The spin Johnny did there was not a spin combination. The rules for those two sets (spins and spin combo's) are different, as well as their BV's.
 
Z

Zuranthium

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
I know. What I'm saying is that last season two difficult variations within a non-combo spin where only considered to be "one element". Now they are considered two and the spin would also be considered level 2, which makes sense.

~Z
 
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