Does Kimmie need the triple Axel?

flying camel · May 19, 2007

I think the jump is defintely good to have. But Kimmie's triple axel just doesn't look easy for her. She should keep practicing it, maybe throw it in somewhere during the GP. But more then anything I want Kimmie to work on being and all around skater. She has all the potential in the world to be the best. She should work on her stetch, she has the nice long legs that is just not show off in any of her programs.

R.D. · May 19, 2007

Kim should "get her groove back"- she seemed to be a bit off on those 3-3 jumps last season. IMO she needs to get THOSE back before she even thinks about adding in the 3A again.

I assume her first event will be SA. Maybe she could try it out there...who knows? but she needs to work on being solid again. She definitely won't need it at Nats- she should win that one handily IF she stays sharp- but at Worlds, that's a different story. She also needs some "oomph" - her skating doesn't quite speak for itself at this stage and she needs music that accomodates her style nicely...anything relatively upbeat in tempo, IMO. the sappy pieces don't cut it for her.

zephyrskates · May 19, 2007

did she ever have it to begin with?
has she ever landed it cleanly?

but i think that she needs to put it into her program fast or she will never be able to challenge mao (or even yuna) even if she miraculously improve in terms of preesentation, now that mao's planning 2 3axels in her program (good grief!)

Joesitz (RIP) · May 19, 2007

Zuranthium said:
It's not that one jump tells all...it's that Mao Asada has the 3Axel PLUS a consistent, difficult 3/3 combo PLUS good spins PLUS strong skating skills and footwork. She is super-human and if people want to beat her that's simply how they have to be too. That is what skating is coming to.

~Z

Mao is definitely one of the best but you have to realize that she did not gold las season nor this season. So she is human (maybe not so super) Her potential for gold this season is as high as it was last season.

BTW, skating has always been that way - one slip may spell doom.

Joe

dancindiva03 · May 19, 2007

zephyrskates said:
did she ever have it to begin with?
has she ever landed it cleanly?

She does, indeed "have" the triple axel. The one she landed in competition back in 2005 was not exactly perfect, but it was ratified. In practices and warm-ups she has landed some gorgeous, textbook perfect 3 axels. Obviously she needs to work on getting it clean in competition, but she does have the jump.

netnuts · May 19, 2007

No. I don't believe she actually 'had' a real 3A.

She has to stop underrotating those 3+3 before even thinking about 3A. She has grown a lot this season and has some real difficulty in 3lutz.

dancindiva03 · May 19, 2007

netnuts said:
No. I don't believe she actually 'had' a real 3A.

She has to stop underrotating those 3+3 before even thinking about 3A. She has grown a lot this season and has some real difficulty in 3lutz.

She does have a real 3 axel. Not landing it in competition does not mean that a skater doesn't have a jump. Like I said before, Kimmie has landed some exquisite 3 axels in practices and warm-ups. True, she needs to do them in competition to get credit for them, but she DOES have the jump.

netnuts · May 19, 2007

dancindiva03 said:
She does have a real 3 axel. Not landing it in competition does not mean that a skater doesn't have a jump. Like I said before, Kimmie has landed some exquisite 3 axels in practices and warm-ups. True, she needs to do them in competition to get credit for them, but she DOES have the jump.

Sasha has a quad salcow if we all use your standard. LOL.

dancindiva03 · May 19, 2007

netnuts said:
Sasha has a quad salcow if we all use your standard. LOL.

Has sasha ever had her quad salchow ratified in competition? I'm pretty sure not. That, IMHO, is the difference.

R.D. · May 20, 2007

Good point. Kim's at least attempted one a couple times, landing it once (albeit barely). Still, practice is that and competition is another. I don't think we can say that she's got a 3A yet and that she can just stick it in. I still maintain that the GP series next year is the best time for her to try it out and get it established out there (same with Asada I suppose). But the stakes go up a little come Nats and Worlds. The former she doesn't need it, the latter she needs all the help she can get.

netnuts · May 20, 2007

Kimmie did not have a 3A in the first place, and I don't believe she will need it in the future.

So much hype on Mao's 3A. I believe she has reached her jump peak, and predict she will gradually lose this jump. I won't be suprised to see Mao's gradual demise over the next few years since she has no 3T or 3S for plan B.

Jaana · May 20, 2007

I think that Kimmie needs the triple axel to stay on the top in Worlds. It is though not just the triple axel she needs, she needs everything else, what the other top ladies have. And of course she needs to be more consistent next season. I believe that Kimmie has really good nerves, but had difficulties this season most of all because of her growth.

R.D. · May 20, 2007

It depends on what the Asians bring. Asada sounds like she has high hopes and aspirations, but it's gonna be a tough task. Meanwhile, if she doesn't hit the jumps she could be beaten by Kim or Ando...maybe even Meissner if she's clean.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 20, 2007

Whatever happened to the Whole Package? All a skater needs is a 3A.

springgarden · May 20, 2007

I love Kimmie's challenge spirits very much!
I want to see Mao about the 3A decisive battle in next year's
championships.

floskate · May 20, 2007

netnuts said:
Kimmie did not have a 3A in the first place, and I don't believe she will need it in the future.

So much hype on Mao's 3A. I believe she has reached her jump peak, and predict she will gradually lose this jump. I won't be suprised to see Mao's gradual demise over the next few years since she has no 3T or 3S for plan B.

Mao has had her triple toe ratified this season. No need to perpetuate the myth that she doesn't have one - she most certainly does and it will only improve under Arutunian. I expect her sal to re-appear soon too, although with the new CoP adjustments her flutz has to take priority plus her double axel is so good and so easy that with the added points for it and the + GOE she gets, her double axel may be worth more to her than most peoples triple sals.

It's all about the points.

As for Mao reaching her peak - it's a possibility and her triple axel certainly isn't as good as when she was 14 but once she has stopped growing and I think she must be almost done as she has grown LOTS the past two seasons, she may regain teh consistency on it that she used to have. She certainly has a good chance since she's been doing the jump since she was 12.

Mathman · May 20, 2007

Joesitz said:
Whatever happened to the Whole Package? All a skater needs is a 3A.

The whole package went out when the CoP came in.

As Satorare points out, the true value of a triple Axel for ladies is about 10 points, when you factor in the automatic increase in PCSs for a skater that does one. (At Worlds, one judge gave Mao a +3 GOE for a two-footed one.)

floskate · May 20, 2007

Mathman said:
The whole package went out when the CoP came in.

Yes it did but I think it will come back in time. YuNa Kim is the guiding light as far as presentation, musicality and artistry are concerned. She needs to work on her spirals of course and with her back problems this could hinder her. Mao demonstrated in her gorgeous SP this past season that with the right music and choreography she is capable of teh total package also.

Mathman · May 20, 2007

I agree about Mao and Kim. Mao's jumping has overshadowed the other aspects of her skating, but she really does not have any weaknesses. The future is in good hands.

I just wish pro skating could come back somehow. Let the 16-year-old leapers win their Olympic medals, then move up to mastery of the art form.

z4mboni · May 20, 2007

Mathman said:
The whole package went out when the CoP came in.

I humbly disagree with this one. It is sort of insulting to skaters who put a lot of effort into improving those elements in their skating for which they are unlikely to get higher scores.
Yes, initially implementing CoP resulted in sticking together not always well executed elements - I still consider some of the high scoring programs as a rape on the nice piece of music. It was to be expected, though - the skaters were forced to perform elements which they were not used to perform well, or at all. Under the old system they could just skip the element, under the new one they are forced to learn it and learn to make it "their own". It takes time, not to mention it is difficult for the older skaters.

Amusingly enough, in the media I watch/read the skaters and the commentators seem to be of opinion that CoP is /forcing/ skaters to be whole packages.
Good jumper can lose with good jumper who happens to have better other elements and presentation. The safest bet to win is to be good in all areas, with some 'wow' moves to catch the judges attention.

So, 3A alone is not a ticket to gold. Whether or not Kimmie needs it is another story - she could certainly use some 'wow' move to compete with Mao, YuNa and Miki. Well, either that - or improve the rest of the package.

Mao's jumping has overshadowed the other aspects of her skating (...)

Actually, what I recently (especially post Worlds) find in Mao the most impressive is her edge quality, amazing flexibility and feel of the music. She's a different skater than at the beginning of the season. In two recent Gala performances every position she struck was picture perfect.

Does Kimmie need the triple Axel?

flying camel

R.D.

zephyrskates

Joesitz (RIP)

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

netnuts

Match Penalty

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

netnuts

Match Penalty

dancindiva03

Match Penalty

R.D.

netnuts

Match Penalty

Jaana

R.D.

Joesitz (RIP)

springgarden

floskate

Mathman

floskate

Mathman

z4mboni

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