Mao and her ballet training
- Thread starter passion
- Start date
I'm not an expert in ballet or figure skating...and i'm not saying that Mao's got great artistry, but she does have nice soft arms.
Kimmie could do with taking a leaf out of Mao's book imo, not even with ballet but just any dance. I get that some people are just natural with it, like Sasha. But for those who need a little help, dance seems to be the way to go. Every little thing helps.
Kimmie could do with taking a leaf out of Mao's book imo, not even with ballet but just any dance. I get that some people are just natural with it, like Sasha. But for those who need a little help, dance seems to be the way to go. Every little thing helps.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I can only see years of ballet training in the world's top ballet companies.
I do see a wonderful figure skater in Mao and much skating training but not that much ballet training However there is some ballet-like arms.
Joe
I do see a wonderful figure skater in Mao and much skating training but not that much ballet training However there is some ballet-like arms.
Joe
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
all the soviet pair teams had extensive balet training. I could see it in Gordeeva/Grinkov. Her positions are very classical.. you coudl see it especilly when she skates alone.
I certainly cannot see YEARS of ballet training, because there was no such thing.
Mao did some ballet training as a very young child - there was a video somwhere of her dancing the solo from Coppelia - but she gave up ballet when she switched to figure skating. I think she was about 5-6 years old back then.
She strated to practice modern ballet in July this year (in Obersdorf, Germany) and classical ballet in August (in Russia, when she trained with Tarasova there). Tarasova picked an elite ballet instructor for Mao and she also took her once a week to watch ballet performances together.
I think we need to wait a little while to see the result of the training - you don't become a ballerina in a month.
Right now Mao is at the stage of learning basics and trying to learn the techniques quickly. As her ballet instructor said: "First you need to master the technique. Then the freedom of expression comes naturally". (More or less. My Russian is bad. )But certainly I could see a lot of improvement since last season. Better posture, great arms, effortless yet elegant flexibility, a lot of balletic positions through her footwork and transitions, better leg turnout, much more dynamic skating, much better expression. Right now it is especially visible in practices and shows, because at Skate Canada she seemed too nervous to skate at her full potential (the exhibition was great, though).
There are some fluffs on YT showing Mao during her ballet training - they show how she really started from the basics. There was a rather cute moment where her instructor pulled on her ponytail to guide her heat into a proper position.
I certainly cannot see YEARS of ballet training, because there was no such thing.
Mao did some ballet training as a very young child - there was a video somwhere of her dancing the solo from Coppelia - but she gave up ballet when she switched to figure skating. I think she was about 5-6 years old back then.
She strated to practice modern ballet in July this year (in Obersdorf, Germany) and classical ballet in August (in Russia, when she trained with Tarasova there). Tarasova picked an elite ballet instructor for Mao and she also took her once a week to watch ballet performances together.
I think we need to wait a little while to see the result of the training - you don't become a ballerina in a month.
But certainly I could see a lot of improvement since last season. Better posture, great arms, effortless yet elegant flexibility, a lot of balletic positions through her footwork and transitions, better leg turnout, much more dynamic skating, much better expression. Right now it is especially visible in practices and shows, because at Skate Canada she seemed too nervous to skate at her full potential (the exhibition was great, though).
There are some fluffs on YT showing Mao during her ballet training - they show how she really started from the basics. There was a rather cute moment where her instructor pulled on her ponytail to guide her heat into a proper position.
That doesn't make sense. She quit ballet at 5 or 6 and then was taking it for about a month or so? Then how come that fluff video on youtube showed her doing piroettes on point? That is definitely not beginner stuff!
BTW, does Yu Na do ballet, too? Do you think it shows?
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2006
I read the same thing. Wasn t Mao doing on pointe when she was 6 in a youtube video?
Mao
here she says she did ballet until she was 9
http://www.skatetoday.com/articles0405/031205-1.htm
here she says she did ballet until she was 9
http://www.skatetoday.com/articles0405/031205-1.htm
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I can't judge if it's ballet training or innate genius, but I've rarely seen anyone move with this grace. She does remind me of Suzanne Farrell with her ability to turn off-balance at top speed and to do unusual things that are so beautifully musical that you're just awestruck. At least I am. (No WOW smilie?)
(Skate Canada exhibition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPaND5Rto0U
(And with that I'm sliding back into retirement.)
(Skate Canada exhibition)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPaND5Rto0U
(And with that I'm sliding back into retirement.)
I can see years of ballet training in my peer students in my ballet classes that I have been attending for years. When I skated before, I also saw years of ballet training in my peer figure skaters who practiced ballet. People don't have to be appointed with the World's top ballet companites to be noticed what they are decently trained for years. I certainly won't downplay the hard dance training that the top skaters do off ice.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Now tell me,since we both took ballet classes and figure skating lessons. I can't believe you don't see the difference. Most of the post that I read, I would say they have only seen photographs of ballerinas and not the real thing on stage.
At least go to a ballet class and see the work that is put into the ballet art form.
One big big big difference is the ballet slipper v. the skating blade. One can not manipulate the foot on skates as one can in slippers.
I have yet to see a Russian lady look like a ballerina on skates. I have seen some Russian ladies give the impression of ballet in Pairs. Bereshnaya for example. Now tell me that the one Russian skater Irina skated like a ballerina and that ALL Russian ladies skated like ballerinas?
Two Questions to all:
1. Why is it so important that all ladies MUST skate as you perceive like Ballerinas?
2. Is it not possible to skate like a champion without being ballet-like?
3. Just thought of it. Has ballet ever taken from figure skating?
Joe
I guess it's a general belief that any form of beauty created by bodily movements be associated with ballet, not to mention many ballet-inspired elements prevalent in figure skating.
It is ABSOLUTELY "possible to skate like a champion without being ballet-like". Weren't Michelle, Irina, and Shizuka all champions? Are they less desirable to watch just because they weren't as balletic as those mediocre skaters who were actually doing ballet on ice? My advice is, if you want to watch a ballerina, go to a ballet theatre, which I do time to time. But I would rather watch champions doing triples and nice footwork on the ice.
My personal opinion is that ballet and ice skating are two completey different art forms. One does not have to look like a ballerina on ice, but the average ice skater without dance training completely lacks musical awareness and how to relate movement to music unless they are innately gifted which is quite rare. It is blatantly obvious when you see the average ice skater at your local rink. The average skater without dance training lacks the details that can make them look polished such as line, extensions, focus of the head and eyes, and the concept of energy among many other things. With these basic concepts one can depart from ballerina style of skating and do other styles, but they have the understanding of movement and music.
You can skate like a champion without doing ballet like movements. A champion ice skater does champion skating which includes edges, jumps, and spins on ICE, non of which ballerinas do. Something I've noticed in all champion ice skater, though, is that they all have a superior ability to relate to the music with their skating whether it's innate or trained.
I can't think of an example where ballet takes from skating, but I can see the opposite being true. Perhaps that is because ballet is the foundation of all dance including skating even if you choose not to do ballerina type of skating.
passion's opinion sounds very fair to me.
Joe seems to be confusing about the problem of replicating ballet on the ice and the general trend of using ballet as complementary training to FS.
I do not have any particular opinion for the former case. So I want to refrain from responding to his questions.
But I certainly do not see any problem in the latter case for the reasons passion described. Solid training in dancing (not necessarily limited to ballet) certainly shows in one's musicality and presentation in FS.
I did think it quite extreme and arrogant for Joe to claim that one can see years of ballet training only in dancers who work for World-famous ballet companies. Then, none of my ballet teachers have had ballet training, according to his standard.
For the skaters as well, I do believe that the strength obtained from hard training off ice should be decently respected for its own right.
Joe seems to be confusing about the problem of replicating ballet on the ice and the general trend of using ballet as complementary training to FS.
I do not have any particular opinion for the former case. So I want to refrain from responding to his questions.
But I certainly do not see any problem in the latter case for the reasons passion described. Solid training in dancing (not necessarily limited to ballet) certainly shows in one's musicality and presentation in FS.
I did think it quite extreme and arrogant for Joe to claim that one can see years of ballet training only in dancers who work for World-famous ballet companies. Then, none of my ballet teachers have had ballet training, according to his standard.
For the skaters as well, I do believe that the strength obtained from hard training off ice should be decently respected for its own right.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2007
Ummm, no. Mao has always had great posture and soft arms, but "soft arms" doesn't necessarily equal the kind of line you achieve from years of ballet training. However, she seems to be very aware of body and how to move beautifully on the ice.
I don't think she has really improved from last year when I watch her last year's SP. I absolutely love Mao's 2006 SP and still watch it often because it was simply elegant and accentuated her line so well. In fact, I don't like her current SP and 1st half of her LP because there is so much arm flailing, but I do think that she is benefiting from more dramatic music.
Years ago, someone commented that the Russian ballet tradition in figure skating is misleading because it gives an erroneous impression that the skaters did hours of ballet training. What the skaters actually learned was the importance of finishing each movement and connecting with the music/performance aspect of skating.
I have a friend who has been studying ballet since he was 8 years old, and his dream is to join ABT. Because I know how much he trains each day & how hard he trains I have great appreciation for the art, but I can't see him or his friends doing ballet on ice.
If you want to see what years of ballet training, amazing control of body and extension look like, watch Polina Semionova:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id-bFpYQzXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0h1qRMayI&feature=PlayList&p=4F5745F709A551FF&index=1
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Re: Q. 1 & 2.
I am afraid I don't see anybody making these claims in this thread. I don't understand where these alleged claims are coming from.
Let me go back to my point. I do see years of ballet training in people who have practiced ballet for years. Or if it is politically incorrect to use the term, "ballet," in this forum (at least I felt as if it were judging from the way you respond), let's say, years of "dance" training of any kind. When they dance, it shows. I do acknowledge and respect the skaters who spend time doing serious off ice training, whatever it is. I respect Daisuke for spending time learning contemporary dance so that he could better connect with music in his new SP. The same goes with Mao. I respect her for spending time learning ballet to better connect with her new programs just as much as I respect her for spending time on gym training to enhance her stamina and jumps.
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Onetime in her junior years, she learned only a few basic movements of ballet to use in skating (maybe a month or so). I heard that she was not interested in ballet. Well, She showed great artistry without real ballet training.
However, according to Brian's interview on Japanskates.com, she is learning ballet from a famous Canadian ballerina (I forgot her name).
Yu na's argument is ballet is different no?
I think what Joe is trying to say is that while people may be able to learn pretty arm movements... The skaters involved aren't learning real ballet... That ballet in and of itself is very different...
OH and the Polina youtube videos were absolutely gorgeous... WOW>>>
I think what Joe is trying to say is that while people may be able to learn pretty arm movements... The skaters involved aren't learning real ballet... That ballet in and of itself is very different...
OH and the Polina youtube videos were absolutely gorgeous... WOW>>>
