At the 4J, 3A, or 3/3 C CUSP

started this on the ISU site but not sure if all of you go there too?

Question is............what should a skater do who has reached an impasse with respect to getting to the ultimate level. For men, they need a quad and a 3A C, ladies a 3/3 C. Ex amples: no quad Jeff Buttle and Todd E., no 3/3 C Rochette and Kwan, etc etc.......is it physical, mental, too old, coaching, diet, in a rut, etc etc. Your thoughts?


What would you suggest a potentially podium finish W or O skater do...... who has wallowed in this no-mans, no-womans land of the elusive 'next step' do??????:scratch::scratch::scratch::scratch:

I am surprised to see Kwan on your list, since she did 3T/3T combination at 1999 Skate America, 1996 Championship Series Final, 1997 Championship Final,1997 World Championship, 1999 U.S. Nationals, 1999 Skate America, 2000 World Championship, 2001 Worlds Qualifying Round, 2001 Worlds LP, 2001 Grand Prix Final, and 2002 Worlds.

After 2003 her hip situation worsened and she had to take that element out of her repertoire.

However, I do think that -- with the remarkable exception of Irina Slutskaya -- once you reach full maturity you are not going to be able to learn new tricks no matter what you do. Old dogs, and all that.

Hm, I believe Tonya Harding learned the 3A in her early 20's, and Kristi Y learned the 3Lu/3T in her early 20's to counteract the 3A of Harding, so it's possible to learn harder elements as you age. Of course, the difference in my mind is the fact that these Ladies skated FIGURES for years and years which enabled them to understand edge and flow in these elements and work on them in a way that they didn't get injurred.

I believe the ones on the cusp need to have the right situation to get it - coaching and training plan.

I think for the most part it's usually physical. Not all athletes, even those within the same sport, are created equal. One ballplayer may hit 40 homeruns a year, while another, with equal playing time, will only hit 3. But he makes contributions in other ways & can have a long career doing so. Skaters are the same way. They're not necessarily blessed w/ the same capabilities. It's simply a matter of perspective & personal choice. If you're a former champion & you see the sport passing you by technically, I would completely understand if you didn't want to subject yourself to say finishing off the podium for the first time in ages. Or perhaps you think you have just enough to get by & remain competitive, and that's all you demand of yourself. It's hard to say really. Every case would obviously have to be judged individually.

Another factor is that many skaters "have" an element, but are hit and miss at landing it in competition. Kimmie Meissner, for instance, has both a 3Lz/3T and a 3F/3T. But in international competition over the last two years she is 4 for 12 in landing her triple-triples.

mskater93 said:

Hm, I believe Tonya Harding learned the 3A in her early 20's, and Kristi Y learned the 3Lu/3T in her early 20's to counteract the 3A of Harding, so it's possible to learn harder elements as you age.

Click to expand...

The emphasis is on "early" twenties, LOL. I am pretty sure that Harding landed her first triple Axel just a few months after her twentieth birthday, and landed all four of her career triple Axels before her 21st birthday. (They were all in 1991, between U.S. Nationals in January and Skate America in October. Harding's birthday is in November.)

I believe Kristi retired from eligible stating after 1992 Worlds, at age twenty.