The Leg Wrap
- Thread starter Bennett
- Start date
It's not important what skaters do in the air, but what they do on the ice. Edges are far more important than a leg wrap!!!!
I understand what you say. But I am not associating her wrap with discussions about take off edges.
The point is that both the TV commentators and the average figure skating fans seem to be much bothered by the wrap. It looks quite an unusual technique. Midori Ito was said to have the wrap, but it was not as distracting as hers. Edges may be more important than air positions, but still air positions are not unimportant. Skating coaches teach what the proper air position should be. It just appears kind of counter-intuitive that she does not get a penalty for the air position that everyone seems to disagree with.
I think it may be reflected in the GOE. Yukari never gets positive GOE on those jumps. The wrap also makes her jumps prone to underrotation and downgrading. I guess the judges think that as long as she's completing the jump without a touchdown/two foot/etc., she should get the base value or close to it.
To say the truth, I'm not bothered at all by the leg wrap. I don't think Yukari's wrap is worse than Midori's, their legs are wrapped just the same, only Midori was a more powerful skater and she rotated her jumps faster.
IIRC, one of the requirements for +GOE is difficult air position. Since it is certainly more difficult to land fully rotated jump with a leg wrap, perhaps Yukari should get some +GoE, as long as the jump was fully rotated and landed clearly..?
I don't remember seeing anything in ISU docs about leg wrap being considered a bad technique (if there's actually something about it, I stand corrected). If Yukari modeled her jumping technique after great Midori (which is possible, considering Yukari admires her and also attempted 3A) and there was in fact no written requirement for tight legs position in air I think it's a bit unfair to bash her for it now, when it would be difficult for her to correct the leg wrap.
IIRC, one of the requirements for +GOE is difficult air position. Since it is certainly more difficult to land fully rotated jump with a leg wrap, perhaps Yukari should get some +GoE, as long as the jump was fully rotated and landed clearly..?
I don't remember seeing anything in ISU docs about leg wrap being considered a bad technique (if there's actually something about it, I stand corrected). If Yukari modeled her jumping technique after great Midori (which is possible, considering Yukari admires her and also attempted 3A) and there was in fact no written requirement for tight legs position in air I think it's a bit unfair to bash her for it now, when it would be difficult for her to correct the leg wrap.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Every phase of the jump must be evaluated for GOE, and the phase in the air is not exempt.
Good to hear that.
IIRC, one of the requirements for +GOE is difficult air position. Since it is certainly more difficult to land fully rotated jump with a leg wrap, perhaps Yukari should get some +GoE, as long as the jump was fully rotated and landed clearly..?
That's a neat interpretation. :chorus:
:agree:But it may help her keeping from two-footing a jump.
No, I am not bashing her at all. I also acknowledge that it would be difficult for Yukari as an individual to correct basic jump techniques at her age. But it just looks counter-intuitive that she---or let's say, a skater whose jumps get a lot of complaints from the commentators---does not get minus GOE for that.
Young skaters practice the air position countless times both on the ground and on the ice. I don't think it unimportant.
But yes, it is likely that the wrap is keeping her from getting plus GOE.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Yukari's first coach was none other than Mashiko Yamada--Midori's coach. She taught both of them the wrap.
Yukari's wrap makes her jumps (that she wraps) look ugly, but that is nothing compared to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vR05b8SBtTs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=badsBSkyL0o
Yukari's wrap makes her jumps (that she wraps) look ugly, but that is nothing compared to:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vR05b8SBtTs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=badsBSkyL0o
Thanks for the vids.
The wrap seems to be the ONLY THING Button and Fleming want to talk about!
I don't know if she encouraged her to do so because there seem to be other students who don't wrap. But you can perhaps say that she didn't insist to fix it.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
The wrap is the positioning of the free leg. The skater here demonstrates well where the free leg should be when spinning in the air:
http://scottcudmore.com/db1/00007/scottcudmore.com/_uimages/SESATampa.jpg
His free leg is right next to the landing (right, in this case for this skater) leg. What Yukari, Erin, and Midori used to do is wrap their free leg by placing the free foot higher than it should be. In Yukari's case, it's almost up at the knee.
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2004
It is interesting that she does not wrap on every jump. When she does wrap, she doesn't get positive GOE.
Personally, I find it very distracting, especially since she does everything else so well.
wrap
it seems to me that Yukari leg wrap is getting worse. by that -she only used to do it for a few jumps, now is seems she does it for all of the jumps.
It is distracting for me because Yurkari is a beautiful skater to watch.
She has nice flow over their ice but when she wraps it breaks the flow of her skating . it jolts me a bit with the flow and musicality of her skating.
Under the new system they get points on whether they do all the turns of the jump and takeoff and landing edges-not on how it looks. Because they are getting deducted on the wrap. I think for that reason more and more skaters are wrapping their free leg. Some a little and some a lot.
Like Miki Ando did it at world last year when she did her doubles. I noticed, fumie, Caroline Z, Emily and a few others have done it more. None as noticeable as Yukari has, but they all have.
i remember under (figures) they had a harder time getting to the top tier if they had a leg wrap, than the skaters who didn't.
For me personnally, I think it is easier to do the triple, double jump because they don't have to do it perfect (correctly).
it seems to me that Yukari leg wrap is getting worse. by that -she only used to do it for a few jumps, now is seems she does it for all of the jumps.
It is distracting for me because Yurkari is a beautiful skater to watch.
She has nice flow over their ice but when she wraps it breaks the flow of her skating . it jolts me a bit with the flow and musicality of her skating.
Under the new system they get points on whether they do all the turns of the jump and takeoff and landing edges-not on how it looks. Because they are getting deducted on the wrap. I think for that reason more and more skaters are wrapping their free leg. Some a little and some a lot.
Like Miki Ando did it at world last year when she did her doubles. I noticed, fumie, Caroline Z, Emily and a few others have done it more. None as noticeable as Yukari has, but they all have.
i remember under (figures) they had a harder time getting to the top tier if they had a leg wrap, than the skaters who didn't.
For me personnally, I think it is easier to do the triple, double jump because they don't have to do it perfect (correctly).
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
i think a lot of judegs must giver her negative GOE for it, becuase even with a perfect program, or close too perfect she never wins! she even landed a 3 axel and had a great program otherwise and still placed 3rd! It does not bother me at all, i cannot understand why so many people say it is distracting.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
What I do not understand about Nakari is that she doesn't really wrap in the axel. (or am I not seeing her axel correctly?)
The axel is taken from a Basque folk dance (Saute Basque, for you balletomanes) where the free foot is properly placed near the ankle of the landing leg. Depending on the character of the music the free leg can be higher, more turned out at the knee, or remain where it is while the dancer is facing the audience in a procenium setting. But that's Dance, and Dance is a freer form of 'art' than competitive figure skating.
Now back on topic, does she wrap the axel as well as the other jumps?
Joe
The axel is taken from a Basque folk dance (Saute Basque, for you balletomanes) where the free foot is properly placed near the ankle of the landing leg. Depending on the character of the music the free leg can be higher, more turned out at the knee, or remain where it is while the dancer is facing the audience in a procenium setting. But that's Dance, and Dance is a freer form of 'art' than competitive figure skating.
Now back on topic, does she wrap the axel as well as the other jumps?
Joe
She doesn't wrap the axel, AFAIK!
BTW, I didn't know the origins of the axel. Interesting fact, that it comes from a Basque folk dance. Do you perhaps know the origins of the other jumps too? Or were they just invented without an inspiration?
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
She doesn't wrap the loop or the salchow jumps either.
I quite like the leg wrap. It really doesn't bother me. Yukari is a beautiful skater with amazing spins and a triple axel which is becoming more consistant. I am really hoping she can medal at Worlds and will do so in Vancover in 3 years time.
I quite like the leg wrap. It really doesn't bother me. Yukari is a beautiful skater with amazing spins and a triple axel which is becoming more consistant. I am really hoping she can medal at Worlds and will do so in Vancover in 3 years time.
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