Free Dance

npa · Dec 1, 2007

My thoughts about FD
i reallu love Kerrs FD - it was very artisticall and unusuall.
Kh/N. - in Paris it was much better. Steps was really slow, it wasnt such intersting to watch, like at first time - there programs didnt grow up during season - its a big problem
Del/Sh - was much better, than in Paris :biggrin:

This dance was improved, but had some elements to work on: its hard lifts, slow rotation, Oly had small problem at circular foot work. But this dance looked more inpressive from time to time - maybe at WCh it would be best FD (for audience) But at this competition they could lose to Kh/N in FD againe - if they didnt fall and didnt have dedaction
V/M - how easy they did all elemets, how fast he made all liftes, how they can show really connection between this tow and made all this difficult elementes. It was really beatfull dance. And they was really fast and powerfull. I think it was really good judging at NHK - franch team had really high componenets, canadian diserved high levels for there technik,
It will be very interestinf GPF - the liders are Domnina0Shabalin, but will see what can happened in Torino/ I am only sorry, that italiance teams wouldnt take part in GPF

enlight78 · Dec 1, 2007

will someone please post the scores

Oscilla · Dec 1, 2007

enlight78 said:
will someone please post the scores

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpjpn07/SEG009.HTM

1 Tessa VIRTUE / Scott MOIR CAN 100.18 52.90 47.28 7.80 7.70 7.95 8.00 8.10 0.00 #9
2 Isabelle DELOBEL / Olivier SCHOENFELDER FRA 96.91 49.10 47.81 8.05 7.80 8.05 7.95 8.10 0.00 #10
3 Jana KHOKHLOVA / Sergei NOVITSKI RUS 94.89 50.70 45.19 7.45 7.30 7.65 7.70 7.75 1.00 #8
4 Sinead KERR / John KERR GBR 86.11 46.60 40.51 6.70 6.50 6.80 7.00 6.95 1.00 #7
5 Kristin FRASER / Igor LUKANIN AZE 81.04 44.40 36.64 6.15 6.00 6.15 5.95 6.35 0.00 #6
6 Kimberly NAVARRO / Brent BOMMENTRE USA 78.80 43.70 35.10 5.85 5.65 5.90 5.95 6.05 0.00 #5
7 Cathy REED / Chris REED JPN 74.12 43.50 30.62 5.10 4.85 5.30 5.20 5.25 0.00 #1
8 Julia ZLOBINA / Alexei SITNIKOV RUS 73.04 43.50 30.54 5.10 4.95 5.10 5.30 5.10 1.00 #3
9 Xintong HUANG / Xun ZHENG CHN 69.02 41.60 28.42 4.95 4.50 4.85 4.70 4.80 1.00 #2
10 Alla BEKNAZAROVA / Vladimir ZUEV UKR 68.61 40.10 31.51 5.40 4.95 5.30 5.35 5.45 3.00 #4

Hooray for V/M! :rock:

I had a feeling that they will break 100 and win FD. IMHO they have the best FD by far from all the teams.

Joesitz (RIP) · Dec 1, 2007

Unofficial Standings Results...show... Del/Sch tied with B/A for 1st with V/M in 3rd followed by Dom/Shab; P/B, and K/N

Subs: C/L; F/S and D/W and in 10th my C/J.

Joe

all that · Dec 1, 2007

1795 said:
yeah
but you have to admit...that first lift...with the music is like BAM

Is this Emeril? :laugh:

slutskayafan21 · Dec 1, 2007

That is not good at all for the French. Losing the FD by over 3 points to Virtue/Moir, and only winning since they had such superior CD. The French still need to figure out how to improve their FD alot, and to a lesser extent their OD. Their TES really needs work, even Khoklova/Novitski beat them on the TES in both programs.

I find it funny since Delobel/Schoenfeldner and Belbin/Agosto are the two teams that won both their events yet it semes like Domnina/Shabalin and Virtue/Moir are the two teams that have the momentum heading to the GP final.

rain · Dec 1, 2007

slutskayafan21 said:
That is not good at all for the French. Losing the FD by over 3 points to Virtue/Moir, and only winning since they had such superior CD. The French still need to figure out how to improve their FD alot, and to a lesser extent their OD. Their TES really needs work, even Khoklova/Novitski beat them on the TES in both programs.

I find it funny since Delobel/Schoenfeldner and Belbin/Agosto are the two teams that won both their events yet it semes like Domnina/Shabalin and Virtue/Moir are the two teams that have the momentum heading to the GP final.

I agree with everything you said. De/Scho have to be worried that they lost both the OD and the FD to V/M, holding onto first place by only a point. They cannot count on winning future competitions on the strength of a CD, which changes from one comp to another and therefore has a very good chance of changing scores and placements. They have to be worried about the FD especially.

V/M are looking good, breaking 100 for their FD. One of only two teams to do it this season, Dom/Shab being the other. The GPF will be very interesting. It's been awhile since we've seen Belbin/Agosto, so it's hard to say where they are in terms of preparation at this point, but I agree that the momentum seems to be with V/M and Dom/Shab, though I think V/M may still have one more season (this year) of dues to pay before the judges will have them fighting for gold at Worlds.

On another note, quite a few deductions in this comp.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 1, 2007

rain said:
I agree with everything you said. De/Scho have to be worried that they lost both the OD and the FD to V/M, holding onto first place by only a point. They cannot count on winning future competitions on the strength of a CD, which changes from one comp to another and therefore has a very good chance of changing scores and placements. They have to be worried about the FD especially.

V/M are looking good, breaking 100 for their FD. One of only two teams to do it this season, Dom/Shab being the other. The GPF will be very interesting. It's been awhile since we've seen Belbin/Agosto, so it's hard to say where they are in terms of preparation at this point, but I agree that the momentum seems to be with V/M and Dom/Shab, though I think V/M may still have one more season (this year) of dues to pay before the judges will have them fighting for gold at Worlds.

On another note, quite a few deductions in this comp.

yeah I think from What olivier said in the ISU interview I think they're aware that they need to improve on the technical aspect. What a shame because otherwise their program is head and shoulders above V and M's. It's such a beautiful program....I hope there will be a youtube video of it soon!

dancemaster · Dec 1, 2007

cassieandcheetah said:
yeah I think from What olivier said in the ISU interview I think they're aware that they need to improve on the technical aspect. What a shame because otherwise their program is head and shoulders above V and M's. It's such a beautiful program....I hope there will be a youtube video of it soon!

i think the same..nothing against V/M but they still need a little time to grown and show us different styles this style we saw this year was the same as last year..yes they have speed have a look how many crosses over they have between elements :rock:

1795 · Dec 1, 2007

cassieandcheetah said:
yeah I think from What olivier said in the ISU interview I think they're aware that they need to improve on the technical aspect. What a shame because otherwise their program is head and shoulders above V and M's. It's such a beautiful program....I hope there will be a youtube video of it soon!

a note to everyone:

duh D/S know what is happening and what they need to work on....but the real question is why arent they ...doing anything....?

im excited to see it on youtube 448758284752904857 times too

but i saw it on that russian tv live thing <3

cassieandcheetah · Dec 1, 2007

1795 said:
a note to everyone:

duh D/S know what is happening and what they need to work on....but the real question is why arent they ...doing anything....?

im excited to see it on youtube 448758284752904857 times too

but i saw it on that russian tv live thing <3

you have to remember that olivier and Isabelle are the last of the older generation in ice dance. I mean, their twizzles and spins are not that good at all, but you have to understand twizzles and spins weren't that big a deal at all in the olden days...Look at Anissina and Peizirat or Bourne and Kraatz. They never had to do more than three twizzle turns at a time, let alone in both directions. Ice dance has changed enormously and I can only marvel at how D/S managed to stay on top until now. V and M has the technical adavatage, but they feel so cookie-cutter to me sometimes. As dancemaster has mentioned, this year's programs don't feel much different than last year's. I actually find Umbrella's kind of boring, too. I just hope D and S find more consistency in their twizzles. I can see Isabelle's ok with it, but it's almost always Olivier that stumbles. If he doesn't, everything will be fine.

chuckm · Dec 1, 2007

I'm not a fan of saccharine schmaltz. Ever since D/L won their first world medal with SIT, it seems as if both D/L and V/M have been sucked into a vat of warm syrup and they are loath to fish themselves out.

At least D/L have a long history of different types of FDs prior to the soppy sentimental period. V/M seem to be in a bit of a rut.

npa · Dec 1, 2007

I think, that now its different time in ID - even you didnt skate so long (like Del/Shol) you can have medals at competitions. Del/Shol is team of old-time period - today we have some really strong yonger teams, which show much better elements and steps. The dances need changes and Dom/Shab, V/M, Kh/N,B/A show modern dance, which was made on modern rules Isa and Oly show for us dances from last era

all that · Dec 1, 2007

chuckm said:
I'm not a fan of saccharine schmaltz. Ever since D/L won their first world medal with SIT, it seems as if both D/L and V/M have been sucked into a vat of warm syrup and they are loath to fish themselves out.

At least D/L have a long history of different types of FDs prior to the soppy sentimental period. V/M seem to be in a bit of a rut.

I agree that if they go any further in this direction, I will dislike them as much as I dislike D/L. They need new choreographers! At the moment though, the lifts and general dancing skills are keeping me interested. Even though the music of "Umbrellas" is like nails on chalkboard.

rain · Dec 1, 2007

chuckm said:
I'm not a fan of saccharine schmaltz. Ever since D/L won their first world medal with SIT, it seems as if both D/L and V/M have been sucked into a vat of warm syrup and they are loath to fish themselves out.

At least D/L have a long history of different types of FDs prior to the soppy sentimental period. V/M seem to be in a bit of a rut.

A rut after two years? Also, it's just your opinion that these dances feel the same — many disagree with you (me included). Personally, I also don't feel comfortable lumping D/L and V/M together — they are very different teams (though I do like both), and their dances last season weren't anything alike. Saccharine is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.

I'm thrilled V/M are doing so well (and have come up with such excellent programs thus far) and it's a bonus that they're from my home country.

oleada · Dec 1, 2007

I'm not a V&M fan either. I think they do the elements very well - kudos to them on this - but their programs are frankly nothing special. They are fast, but off course they are going to be fast if all that's between their elements is two-footed skating and crossovers. As a whole, I find them generic, bland and over-rated.

Honestly, when I watch them, I can't remember what they did after they're done, and it feels like Umbrellas (and I agree that the music is dreadful) and Valse Triste are very similar.

They do have lovely lifts though.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 1, 2007

oleada said:
I'm not a V&M fan either. I think they do the elements very well - kudos to them on this - but their programs are frankly nothing special. They are fast, but off course they are going to be fast if all that's between their elements is two-footed skating and crossovers. As a whole, I find them generic, bland and over-rated.

Honestly, when I watch them, I can't remember what they did after they're done, and it feels like Umbrellas (and I agree that the music is dreadful) and Valse Triste are very similar.

They do have lovely lifts though.

That's how I feel about them too. I used to love them, but they're becoming a bit more generic. I have to agree with you on their crossovers and lack of transitions. Their speed and lifts are quite excellent though, but I think they fail to bring purpose or meaning to their program.

skatingfan04 · Dec 1, 2007

A rut after two years? Thts'a a little harsh. Perhaps they didnt go from their waltz to something firey and Latin, but I don't think this year's program is similar to last years. I wouldnt call Valse Triests and Umbrellas any more similar that B/A doing Amelie and then Chopin. The prorams have totally different feels. I also don't think that they are lacking in transitions, but this is JMO. Good for them for winning the FD and breaking 100. :rock:

D/S won fair and square though, since they had a better CD, so congratz to them. To be honest, I'm not a skater, so I feel unqualified to judge technique. I cant tell what makes D/S tango 4 points better than V/M's although I'm sure it is. Anyhow, both teams are headed to the final, and some of the veretnas will have to look behind them, since ther is no CD to hold V/M back.

cassieandcheetah · Dec 1, 2007

skatingfan04 said:
A rut after two years? Thts'a a little harsh. Perhaps they didnt go from their waltz to something firey and Latin, but I don't think this year's program is similar to last years. I wouldnt call Valse Triests and Umbrellas any more similar that B/A doing Amelie and then Chopin. The prorams have totally different feels. I also don't think that they are lacking in transitions, but this is JMO. Good for them for winning the FD and breaking 100. D/S won fair and square though, since they had a better CD, so congratz to them. To be honest, I'm not a skater, so I feel unqualified to judge technique. I cant tell what makes D/S tango 4 points better than V/M's although I'm sure it is. Anyhow, both teams are headed to the final, and some of the veretnas will have to look behind them, since ther is no CD to hold V/M back.

Yeah, V and M will probably will becuase they have better techniques and hence do their elements better, and D and S will never win a world medal because they're not as good in their techniques. Yeah, that's a bit sad isn't it? I don't like how you make it seem like youngsters are held back when they deserve to be on top. If anything, I feel like it's the reverse case here. D and S this year has a more complex program, whereas as many have observed on the forum, V and M's dance doesn't really tell a story but instead is a fluid series of one element after another. I can't stand the high knee kick, since they do so many of them. Can they do anything other than lift their legs up in unison? I don't know, I'm just a bit tired of the youngsters doing better elements because they're better accostomed to the judging system but people still saying the veterans are favored. I don't think that's the case any longer, so I just hope people don't forget what ice skating was really about several years ago before the new system came about.

and I don't think they're in a "rut," but I think what people really meant by that is that they definitely have a certain Shpilband feel to it that their teammates B /A do. Someone balked when I said V/M feel similar to B/A, but I think they both have that thing that is only found in shpilbands's pupils.

bellafurr · Dec 1, 2007

You can bash V&M all you want, it won"t make D& S better skaters

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