Skaters that could use improvement? | Page 6 | Golden Skate

Skaters that could use improvement?

Smiley0884

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
merfsk8s said:
I wanted to add two more skaters to my earlier opinion. Irina Lobacheva and Ilia Averbukh - simply because they acted really rotten when they won silver this year at Worlds. They made all the usual Russian competitor comments about how the crowd wanted the Canadians to win and how Bourne and Kraatz were just given gold b/c it was their last comp.

Perhaps being a gracious loser isn't something that is valued in Russia, b/c I've seen a pattern w/their competitors of sour grapes - Butyrskaya, Plushenko, and now Lobacheva and Averbukh. Granted, Americans aren't always perfect (think Nancy Kerrigan) when they lose -but, the Russians are always blaming someone else when they falter, whether it is the judges, the audience, the ice, or who knows what?

It makes me ill....

Give me a break :rolleye: Everyone is setting out to lynch L/A for Ilya's comments. First i would like to point out that Irina and Ilya may be married, and may be partners, but they are not one person, nor do they share a brain. Irina may not feel has bitter about the situation as Ilya does, so let's not judge both of them for something that one of them said. And secondly I find it rather Ironic that you failed to mention B/K's whining and crying everytime they got a placement they didn't like.
 
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SkateFan4Life

Guest
I never really enjoyed Jill Trenary's skating. Perhaps it's because she was always held up by the judges. Time after time Jill skated long programs that contained one or more errors, yet she always received marks high enough to put her on the podium.

Case in point - her 1989 Skate America long program was nothing short of DISASTROUS. Trenary fell or missed every one of her triples, yet she received scores in the low to mid-fives, and that was good enough to give her the silver medal.

In my opinion, her 1989 World bronze medal was a gift from the judges. She doubled her planned triple flip, and then she slipped on her planned triple salchow. The rest of the program was little more than watering her triples to singles and doubles. She did not deserve to medal, in my opinion, not with that long program.
Yet, the judges awarded her marks that were high enough to place her third. Granted, Jill had finished second in the school figures and the short program, so she had skated well up until the long program, and of course, with the combined results, she won the bronze medal fairly and squarely.

Just seems to me that Trenary was always held up by the judges.
Perhaps the fact that she was coached by Carlo Fassi had something to do with it? Here we go again!
 

icenut84

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Smiley0884 said:
Give me a break :rolleye: Everyone is setting out to lynch L/A for Ilya's comments. First i would like to point out that Irina and Ilya may be married, and may be partners, but they are not one person, nor do they share a brain. Irina may not feel has bitter about the situation as Ilya does, so let's not judge both of them for something that one of them said. And secondly I find it rather Ironic that you failed to mention B/K's whining and crying everytime they got a placement they didn't like.

ITA. Not to mention Jamie Sale after SLC. It's not always those "evil horrible Russians" who are the whiners or the bad guys. :rolleye: :sheesh: Quit with all the stereotyping/generalisations.
 

lulu

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 4, 2003
Totally agree with everything Smiley0884 said.
First of all we shouldn't pigeonhole skaters by nationality ie. "The Russians are always blaming someone else..." Have some Russian skaters blamed others when they did not perform as well as they wanted? Yes. Have skaters of other nationalities also blamed others? Yes. Not all Russian skaters have blamed others when they did not get the medal of their choosing.

I have nothing against B&K, but not mentioning their whinining, while mentioning Ilia's is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I also totally agree with Smiley's comments. As much as I hate Ilia's comments after Worlds, he didn't do what other skaters haven't done before.
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
I never cared much for Tara Lipinski's skating. Despite the fact that she won US, World, and Olympic titles, she was nothing but an incredibly focused kid out there. Her artistry was improving, but she still looked like a little kid - totally undeveloped physically -
and her presentation skills were still pretty much at the junior level. I understand her rationale for leaving the eligible ranks, with her serious injury that has effectively put an end to her performing her arsenal of triple jumps. Still, she just appeared to be a little kid who ran in, grabbed the gold medal, and said goodbye.
 

StillBlueLake

Rinkside
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
merfsk8s said:
I wanted to add two more skaters to my earlier opinion. Irina Lobacheva and Ilia Averbukh - simply because they acted really rotten when they won silver this year at Worlds. They made all the usual Russian competitor comments about how the crowd wanted the Canadians to win and how Bourne and Kraatz were just given gold b/c it was their last comp.

Perhaps being a gracious loser isn't something that is valued in Russia, b/c I've seen a pattern w/their competitors of sour grapes - Butyrskaya, Plushenko, and now Lobacheva and Averbukh. Granted, Americans aren't always perfect (think Nancy Kerrigan) when they lose -but, the Russians are always blaming someone else when they falter, whether it is the judges, the audience, the ice, or who knows what?

It makes me ill....

Add me to the "quit making stereotypes of Russian skaters" list. It's just not cool :(

BTW, was looking in at Worlds FD practice on morning of event. Watched B/K cut directly between L/A twice during their runthrough, interrupting their flow. Does their rudeness not count because they are Canadian?

And just for the record, I can't stand dance, but I don't like stereotypes and I know what I saw and I saw B/K playing the typical game before the event.

Other sore losers I can think of off hand: Surya Bonaly, Tonya H., Nancy Kerrigan, S/P, and yes many more, from ALL DIFFERENT COUNTRIES. Being immature and childish over a loss does not have a nationality. It's the character flaw of an individual.
 
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chuckm

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Country
United-States
What I thought was funny was that Ilya Averbukh blamed the audience because their rock'n'roll number didn't go over well.
 

gsk8

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Country
United-States
Thread re-opened

I've changed the title of this thread and have re-opened it.

Instead of listing what is not liked about skaters, perhaps it might be educational and interesting to see what "improvements" (in your humble opinions) these hard-working athletes could make ;)
 

jenny12

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
My least fav. has to be Maria Butyrskaya. The way she fell sometimes was painful to watch, falling, struggling up, one more glide, and the splat all over again. Got to admire her guts though.

Next in line is Bourne of the B&B team. The sometimes in and sometimes out of character and flirting with the audience as if she is a politician doing the campaign makes for the less convincing and self-conscious skating. But I liked her last amateur program, the one that won her the world title.
 

blurrysarah

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 21, 2003
I want Lu Chen to fix her camel spin. Everytime I watch it I cringe.
There are novice skaters at my rink who do longer camels with better extension.
 

alina

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
I want Timothy Goebel to improve his artistic expression (up to now there is next to nothing).

Alina
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
Just to state the obvious -- Timothy Goebel needs to improve his presentation skills. He REALLY needs to straighten his back and to show some emotion in his performances. He's still pretty "wooden" out there, as far as I'm concerned. His jumping ability is outstanding, however, but multiple quads are not enough to win World and Olympic titles. I sincerely hopes he makes those artistic improvements between now and the next Winter Olympics!
 

mpal2

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
curious said:
Plushy was right,Yags has nothing to do with his skating skills Mishin does.

Even Mishin has referenced the fact that the rivalry pushed them both to do more. I would rather watch Yagudin over Plushy, but even I can admit that some of the most exciting competitions have been between the two of them. To beat the other one, they have to push harder and do more.

Do you really think we would be seeing 4-3-3 or 4-3-2 from Plushy if Yagudin wasn't so consistent with the 4-3? The reason why Tim has to do 3 quads in his program is because he has to do them to get close to what Plushy and Yags can put out on the ice.

For better or worse, the rivalry has pushed them farther than either one would have had the incentive/need to go on their own.
 

SkateCynic

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
We all sound like a bunch of graduates from the Simon Cowell School of Criticism ;) .....

Petrova and Tikhonov mainly need to change their whole realm on the artistic end. It seems every time I've watched them skate over the past four years, they pick music that is monotonous and depressing, which, even with good speed, can drag the program down. I'd like to see them pick some music with fire and passion, for once. Currently they're programs are about as exciting to watch as it is to watch paint drying. On a picky note, I wish to high heavens that she would (along with Tatiana Totmiana) need to ditch the ultra-cropped, dyed red hair. Their 'dos seem to get shorter with each passing season, and if they keep going, I fully expect Maria P. to show up with a shaven head with a coat of Sherwin Williams on it.

Viktoria is absolutely frustrating to watch. I just feel as though she doesn't pay attention to or doesn't care about finishing positions, stretching out, or showing any signs of life. Her music and programs aren't necessarily boring, I just always get the impression that SHE'S bored to tears on the ice, with an occasional expression of panic or fear. She's got the potential - and she's got some of the loveliest hand expressions in skating today.

I'll probably get drawn and quartered for this, but I don't much care for Denkova and Stavisky. IMO she always has a 'hard' look to her facial expressions, even while smiling - I always get the feeling she's thinking "I'm going to beat up anyone that gets in my way - and this was before her whining and starting that petition after 02 Worlds. :rolleye:

Plush - let Mishin coach his technical aspects, and get someone else to choreograph and pick his costumes. I always get the feeling his choreography tries to mimic Yagudin's from the prior season (and costumes - the black and gold SP costume he wore for his Adagio SP was too eerily reminiscent of Yag's MITIM LP costume). He'd also benefit from a muscle relaxant or two - I often wonder if various body parts are going to snap of and break like a dried twig. Not undeserving of his wins that I've seen, but he just doesn't do it for me.

I just get frazzled when I see skaters that have all the necessary abilities and attributes physically/technically that get ruined by poor choreography, music selection, and polish. So many posters bring the same issues up over and over - if it's so obvious to everyone else, why can't they see it?
 

curious

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 15, 2003
I said Plushenko's coach is the only person responsible for teaching him what he knows not Yagudin. They have push each other and the sport to a new level. Their rivalry is the most exciting I have seen. Too bad is coming to an end.
 

Kwanisqueen81

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
sasha cohen

I like sasha choen soooo much, I don't know what to do!!!
However she need help.

two things:

1) Edges
Simply she needs to lean to skate on deeper/more confident edges. If she does that will so a long way to success.

2) Performance stamina
she needs to do full run-thoughs of her programs so muscle memory could kick in and she wouldn't make so many mistakes. Also this way the performance won't look "forced" as it did at nats. I think performace wise her best was skate canada and actually last years cambells( the performance just came to life more,imho)
 
S

SkateFan4Life

Guest
I realize this is stating the obvious, but Sarah Hughes needs to correct her entrances into her jumps. That free leg is stretched out way, way too far, and she frequently lands awkwardly. Her posture could stand some improvement as well.

But then again, she has an Olympic gold medal!!!
 
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