2008-2009 Programs by Discipline | Page 5 | Golden Skate

2008-2009 Programs by Discipline

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I'm not sure why you state that as though it's fact. It didn't sound like there were lyrics to me, or to the judges at Skate Canada, French Nats and Europeans. Why would Joubert, J.C. Simond and Kurt Browning knowingly break the rules? And surely the French federation would have tried to avoid this problem if it was as obvious as you suggest?

I think in a situation like that, a skater should be given the benefit of the doubt unless it's really glaring. Maybe there can be some way to certify music at the start of the season - waiting until Worlds to stick him with a deduction was unfair.

Because if you listen to the music it has words being sung on it. It is very obvious. Worlds was the only time i saw the performance and all the way through i was complaining that he was using music with vocal lyrics in it. If anything the judges at previous competitions should be sanctioned for not enforcing the rule. I suspect that like most things go, on the GP he was given the benefit if the doubt that skaters who are out of the top 10 at worlds would not get.

Ant
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Because if you listen to the music it has words being sung on it. It is very obvious. Worlds was the only time i saw the performance and all the way through i was complaining that he was using music with vocal lyrics in it.
Again, Ant, this was obvious to you - not to the skater, his coaching team, his federation, and the judging panel in each of his competitions prior to Worlds - including Europeans. When the deduction came up at Worlds, there were many who were confused by the explanation. You may have been complaining that he had lyrics - others were complaining that he was punished despite NOT having lyrics. This was not a clear-cut situation as you try to paint it. As often happens in figure skating, it's your opinion, not an undisputed fact.

Personally, I disagree that it's "obviously" lyrics. It's obviously vocals - beyond that it's hard to discern; I've watched the program more than once, my hearing's fine, and I can't tell for sure - though as my posts make clear, I'm leaning towards no lyrics. I would like to believe that the people involved were smart and fair enough not to violate known ISU regulations - and really why would anyone choose to disregard such a rule on purpose? What advantage could it possibly give the skater?

I still believe that all skaters should be given the benefit of the doubt in this type of situation - whether they are top 10 or not. Regardless, there needs to be some mechanism for clearing music for competitions. Surely the ISU, with its love of micromanaging every aspect of the performances these days, can handle this? And finally, getting back to my original point: overzealous application of the rules without giving the benefit of the doubt may lead skaters to make less varied music choices. Which would be bad.
 

lilybear

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 23, 2007
Here are some more that I read about at fsuniverse

Kiira Korpi's new long program: "Agatha" by Kerkko Koskinen
Laura Lepistö's new short program: music by Karl Jenkins
Jenni Vähämaa's new long program: West Side Story, "an unusual version"
Susanna Pöykiö: can resume training on ice next week, plans to have a new short program if there is enough time

I wonder what they mean by an "unusual version" of West Side Story.
Thanks for your sharing!:agree:

I really like the four finnish girls.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Again, Ant, this was obvious to you - not to the skater, his coaching team, his federation, and the judging panel in each of his competitions prior to Worlds - including Europeans. When the deduction came up at Worlds, there were many who were confused by the explanation. You may have been complaining that he had lyrics - others were complaining that he was punished despite NOT having lyrics. This was not a clear-cut situation as you try to paint it. As often happens in figure skating, it's your opinion, not an undisputed fact.

Personally, I disagree that it's "obviously" lyrics. It's obviously vocals - beyond that it's hard to discern; I've watched the program more than once, my hearing's fine, and I can't tell for sure - though as my posts make clear, I'm leaning towards no lyrics. I would like to believe that the people involved were smart and fair enough not to violate known ISU regulations - and really why would anyone choose to disregard such a rule on purpose? What advantage could it possibly give the skater?

I still believe that all skaters should be given the benefit of the doubt in this type of situation - whether they are top 10 or not. Regardless, there needs to be some mechanism for clearing music for competitions. Surely the ISU, with its love of micromanaging every aspect of the performances these days, can handle this? And finally, getting back to my original point: overzealous application of the rules without giving the benefit of the doubt may lead skaters to make less varied music choices. Which would be bad.

Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion. From memory Joubert's team have groused about the lack of deduction in any previous competitions, there has been no denial that there were lyrics in the music. Joubert's team either thought it was worth the risk or were plain and simply stupid to use music with lyrics. I strongly believe that the deduction at worlds was well deserved and that the rule should have been applied properly at the start of the season so that Joubert and his team could have done something about it before worlds. In any event it didn't and wouldn't have changed the results everything else being equal.

Ant
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
1. The Finnish ladies - I would love to see Susanna Pöykiö make a successful comeback, and it would be great if she has the time to train at least one new program. She's lovely to watch. I would also be happy to see Kiira Korpi bounce back from what had to have been a very disappointing Worlds. I'm not sold on Laura Lepisto and haven't seen Vähämaa enough times to form an opinion.

2. I wonder what Stephane Lambiel will come up with, seeing as he's changing coaching teams. And if Plushy does make his rumored comeback, please don't let it be with that Eurovision song, instrumental or as an exhibition. :eek:

Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion. From memory Joubert's team have groused about the lack of deduction in any previous competitions, there has been no denial that there were lyrics in the music. Joubert's team either thought it was worth the risk or were plain and simply stupid to use music with lyrics. Ant
The existence of words in this case is subject to perception, as could be seen from from the lack of deductions in prior competitions. Why is the judgement that there were lyrics "fact" and the more frequent call that there were no lyrics "not fact"?

You clearly want to believe that Joubert and his team behaved stupidly and willfully broke the rules. Both are your own interpretations. Worth the risk? It's not like going for a big jump and falling; there is no advantage in having lyrics in your music.

I am not going to revisit this issue. I am sorry for the threadjacking; it was not my original intention to do so. I hope to see skaters using vocals as instruments again in 2009 and to have them receive no deductions for it.
 

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
Opinions are opinions and facts are fact. The existance of words being sung by a voice on a piece of music is fact not an opinion. From memory Joubert's team have groused about the lack of deduction in any previous competitions, there has been no denial that there were lyrics in the music. Joubert's team either thought it was worth the risk or were plain and simply stupid to use music with lyrics. I strongly believe that the deduction at worlds was well deserved and that the rule should have been applied properly at the start of the season so that Joubert and his team could have done something about it before worlds. In any event it didn't and wouldn't have changed the results everything else being equal.

Ant

Yes but it's a fact that Lambiel's LP had lyrics as well, and his were much more noticable than Jouberts, so why no deduction for him?
 

chnfs

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Chinese skaters

Some news:

Pang & Tong have finished their choreography. They will have two new programs next season. The short program is blues style music, choreographed by Sarah Kawahara. The long program is a mixture of tango, and lyrics music, done by Morozov.

Zhang & Zhang are working with Shpilband VS Zueva on a new long program, together with two Chinese ice dancing teams.
 

discoduck

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
Some news:

Pang & Tong have finished their choreography. They will have two new programs next season. The short program is blues style music, choreographed by Sarah Kawahara. The long program is a mixture of tango, and lyrics music, done by Morozov.

Zhang & Zhang are working with Shpilband VS Zueva on a new long program, together with two Chinese ice dancing teams.

Zhang Squared with Igor and Marina? Wow, I can't wait to see how that turns out! I never thought of them as very dancey but maybe they can bring out those qualities in them. Should be interesting.

I might be in the minority but I liked P and T's Romeo and Juliet last season. As much as Morozov give me hives, he does come up with decent choreography. I"m curious to hear the music, tango with lyrics? Oh please tell me it's not Cell Block Tango! :laugh: Pop Squish Cicero Yao Bin! ;) Seriously though, lyrics aren't allowed and I don't understand the difference between "the voice as an instrument" and someone saying words. To me, it all sounds like a type of lyric. I'd hate to think Morozov was setting them up for a vocal deduction.

On the other hand, I've always liked Kawahara's work. I can't wait to see their short.
 

singerskates

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
I am SO SO happy somebody is skating to Karl Jenkins.

As for "an unusual version of West Side Story", it seems that most skaters have different versions. Nobody chooses the traditional versions from the movie.

I know why. The reason skaters don't skate to the original move soundtrack is because there isn't much of the music without words. There's singing throughout most of it. So music editors have to search for versions of the music that were recorded without words.

How do I know? First of all I edit music for figure skaters and secondly, I just skated to West Side Story last year. My version was just piano, violin and once and a while there were drums. Not all movie soundtracks are equal with having enough music that has no vocals. And stripping the vocals out of pieces usually takes all of the melody out.
 

mycelticblessing

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
I"m curious to hear the music, tango with lyrics? Oh please tell me it's not Cell Block Tango! :laugh: Pop Squish Cicero Yao Bin! ;) Seriously though, lyrics aren't allowed and I don't understand the difference between "the voice as an instrument" and someone saying words. To me, it all sounds like a type of lyric. I'd hate to think Morozov was setting them up for a vocal deduction.

I think they mean lyrical music. Maybe something like 'Adagio'? They would never skate to a music with lyrics, that would be placement murder for P/T.
 

discoduck

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
I think they mean lyrical music. Maybe something like 'Adagio'? They would never skate to a music with lyrics, that would be placement murder for P/T.

I'm sure you're right. I know that sometimes things translate very differently from Chinese to English. I assume the original source of the news was written in Chinese.
 

mycelticblessing

Final Flight
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
I'm sure you're right. I know that sometimes things translate very differently from Chinese to English. I assume the original source of the news was written in Chinese.

Not too sure where the original source is from. The one I read from Z/Z's website only mentioned that P/T will skate to a tango. It did also mention that Z/Z have temporarily chosen 'Yangtze' for their Free Skate.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
I read from Icenetwork photo shoot, that Lysacek is travelling next week to Moscow to create new programmes with Tarasova. I blinked a couple of times and the first thought was that somebody has made a mistake and they meant Weir...., LOL. Anyway, I will be eagerly looking forward to those programmes as Lysacek is a very different person from those male skaters that Tarasova has worked earlier with, I think.
 
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lmarie086

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
I read from Icenetwork photo shoot, that Lysacek is travelling next week to Moscow to create new programmes with Tarasova. I blinked a couple of times and the first thought was that somebody has made a mistake and they meant Weir...., LOL.

I saw that too! I had to do a little double take lol. So I take it this means we won't have another season of Tosca? :clap:
 

merrybari

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Actually, I'm going to miss Tosca, but am interested to see what these two will come up with together.

That said, can someone please post some samples of some things that Tarasova has done with others? Sadly, I'm not all that familiar with what she has done or what her area(s) of expertise are. Please enlighten - a curious fan wants to know. Thanks.
 

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Some news:

Pang & Tong have finished their choreography. They will have two new programs next season. The short program is blues style music, choreographed by Sarah Kawahara. The long program is a mixture of tango, and lyrics music, done by Morozov.

Zhang & Zhang are working with Shpilband VS Zueva on a new long program, together with two Chinese ice dancing teams.

I can't quite picture them doing a tango, but I love Sarah Kawahawa's work, so that souds rather promising. as for zhang and zhang, almost anything has got to be better than last year.

I read from Icenetwork photo shoot, that Lysacek is travelling next week to Moscow to create new programmes with Tarasova. I blinked a couple of times and the first thought was that somebody has made a mistake and they meant Weir...., LOL. Anyway, I will be eagerly looking forward to those programmes as Lysacek is a very different person from those male skaters that Tarasova has worked earlier with, I think.

:clap::clap::clap::love::love::love: I am SO SO excited. I can't wait to see them!
 

ae9177

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
I read from Icenetwork photo shoot, that Lysacek is travelling next week to Moscow to create new programmes with Tarasova. I will be eagerly looking forward to those programmes as Lysacek is a very different person from those male skaters that Tarasova has worked earlier with, I think.

Well, don't forget Yags is a masculine skater with heoric style too. Tarasova did an excellent job to choreograph many of his classics. This is a very nice move for Evan. :rock: Looking forward to his new programs. :clap:

Interesting music choices from the Chinese pairs, especially P/T's Tango. Hope they can pull it off. :thumbsup:
 

merrybari

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Well, don't forget Yags is a masculine skater with heoric style too. Tarasova did an excellent job to choreograph many of his classics. This is a very nice move for Evan. :rock: Looking forward to his new programs. :clap: :

Me too!!

There's a new article in the news section at IceNetwork in which Evan goes into more detail about the reasons behind his decision to work with her. A great move!!
 

chnfs

Match Penalty
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
I can't quite picture them doing a tango, but I love Sarah Kawahawa's work, so that souds rather promising.


http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/2008-06/11/content_6752253.htm
The pair recently returned from a month-long trip to the US where they trained with world-renowned choreographers Nikolai Morozov and Sarah Kawahara to develop their new routines.

Blues music will be the backdrop for their short program, while their freestyle skating music will consist of up-tempo tango songs, a contrast to their previous freestyle, which was often slower and more lyrical.

"We have listened to various types of music and finally decided to apply the styles that are a departure from our past," Tong said. "We hope the new program attracts the attention of the judges."
 
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