Always a Bridemaid...

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NanSinger2

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• Aug 19, 2003

• #1

Reading a few posts got me thinking...which skaters come to mind as never/seldom reaching their potential at the right time. These are skaters that come to mind for me:

Lu Chen (except for her one world win)
Tonia Kwiatkowski
Micheal Wiess (except for his National win "gifts")
Surya B (at her world/olympic performances)
Sarah Hughes (except for her Olympic win)


Any thoughts?

 

Joesitz (RIP)

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• Aug 19, 2003

• #2

Michael did quite well for himself at Lalique. Kwiatkowski did skate her best in her last Olys, but she was underscored.

I presume we are discussing personal bests and not gold.

I have never seen Angela's personal best. There were glimpses of it - enough to make me think how fabulous she could be - but I never saw the complete package.

Others include Galina Maniachenko; Jeffrey Buttle; NNN; Carolina Kostner; Yoshie Onda; Sarah Meier; Johnny Weir; Savoie; and one of my favorites: Ilia Klimkin.

I'm hope for all the above (and others) to get a personal best at some time in their eligible careers.

Joe

 

Ptichka

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• #3

Abt (wonderful skater, but always in the shadow of Yags/Plush)

In a strange way, I would also say Ina & Zimmerman: their best result (World bronze) came with a very sub-par performance.

Drobiazko & Vanagas. Sigh...

 

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hrmsk8ngnutt

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• Aug 19, 2003

• #4

OK, I'm going to go back a little farther:

Caryn Kadavy
Josee Chouinard
Mark Mitchell

~These three had all the talent but at most times not the nerves.

Wilson/McCall
Rahkamo/Kokko
Punsalan/Swallow
Drobiazko/Vanagas

~If only they didn't have the Russians in front of them.... Especially Punsalan/Swallow - they should NOT have been behind Lobacheva/Averbukh and Fusar-Poli/Margaglio in 98!!!!

Herm (sk8ngnutt)

 

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NanSinger2

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• Aug 19, 2003

• #5

I would have to include Josee on my list as well. I remember being so frustrated for her. I was so excited to see her blossom as a pro.

Joe, you totally understood what I intended with this thread.

 

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #6

See next message

 

Last edited: Aug 20, 2003

Ladskater

~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~

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• #7

Always a Bridemaid...:No

hrmsk8ngnutt:

Nothing wrong with Wilson & McCall's nerves. They did win bronze at the Olympics in Calgary - should have been silver. Here is their record:

1988 Olympic bronze medalist
1986-88 World bronze medalist (2 World bronze medals)
1982-88 Canadian champion (Seven Canadian titles)

Their only problem was cracking the European block judging system. The Russians were always favored. Of course now the judging is "under scrutiny" in the ice dance world. Tracy and Rob would be awarded golds now!


http://www.las-olimpiadas.net/images/88wilson_mccall2.jpe

 

berthes ghost

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #8

Lad, I think that you misunderstood. The nerves comment was about Caryn, Josee and Mark, not Tracy & Rob.

The only one of these

"Lu Chen (except for her one world win)
Tonia Kwiatkowski
Micheal Wiess (except for his National win "gifts")
Surya B (at her world/olympic performances)
Sarah Hughes (except for her Olympic win)"

that fits my understanding of 'always a bridesmaid...' is Surya. Silver behind 3 different world champs, and never gold. I dodn't think your other examples fit the old addage at all.

Some of my nominee's:

- Tim Brown: 4 silvers to David Jenkis'golds.
- David Santee: 4 silvers to 3 different nat champs.
- Paul Wylie: 3 silvers to 3 different nat champs.
- Carol Heiss: what does a girl have to do to beat Tenley! But she did triumph in the end.
- Tina Noyes & Gabby Seyfert: Peggy really should have had them as bridesmaids at her wedding, it would have been only too fitting!
- Lisa-Marie Allen
- Kristi at nats until 92. Finally.
- Werner Rittberger: 3 silver to 2 different world champs. And he invented the loop!
- James Grogan:4 nats silver and 4 world silver to 2 different world champs.
- Ronnie Robertson: Hayes Jenkins' shaddow.
- Brian Orser: king of the silver medals, to 3 different champs.

 

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lavender

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #9

"Lu Chen (except for her one world win)
Tonia Kwiatkowski
Micheal Wiess (except for his National win "gifts")
Surya B (at her world/olympic performances)
Sarah Hughes (except for her Olympic win)"

I understand all but Lu Chen and Michael Weiss.

Lu Chen and MW had a lot of expectations and MW was expected to win Nationals at least at one point. I know at least one Nat win for MW wasn't a gift and I'm not a fan. Lu Chen had great expectation in her country and she won Worlds and there's a good argument that she could have beaten a clean Michelle and won Worlds 2 times in a row.

However, Sarah's never really the favorite although she had a miracle happen on one night but that's what it took for it to happen for her. Even though she got Olympic gold she's still hardly anyone's favorite. Tonia never had expectations for gold but people wanted more for her. Surya's another non favorite that was just consistent but had too many flaws.

 

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Kathleen

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #10

I'm going to say Angela Nikodinov.....I just want her to skate so well...she's got sooooooo much talent!! Going to agree with Caryn Kadavy too....another one with a lot of talent, but never put out that great performance.

I'm also going to put Sasha Cohen on my list.....she's just amazing, but it seems her nerves always get in the way or something.

Maybe Mark Mitchell for the guys......and throw Michael Weiss in there too.....

 

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astimegoesby

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #11

The very first skater who came to my mind after reading the title of this thread was Brian Orser: how many silver medals did he get before finally winning 1987 Worlds? And again, how many of those silver medals would have been gold had Orser competed under today's rules??

Surya Bonaly won quite a few silver medals at Worlds, too, didn't she?

And how many years were B&K stuck in third place at Worlds before finally moving up?

Annie Bellemare has placed either second or third at Canadians for quite a few years now, but still hasn't managed to make it to the top.

On the national level, Hough and Ladret won 1988 Canadians, but always placed second (mostly to B&E) every following year until H&L turned pro in 1992.

 

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curious

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #12

Chen Lu should have beaten Michell but not in Canada.

 

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patsue47

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #13

Lotsa talent but unable to capitalize consistently:
Janet Lynn, Nicole Bobeck, Christopher Bowman, and the list goes on....

 

Joesitz (RIP)

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• Aug 20, 2003

• #14

One has to wonder whether the winners were really the "best"?

Joe

 

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sk8er1964

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• #15

lavender said:

However, Sarah's never really the favorite although she had a miracle happen on one night but that's what it took for it to happen for her. Even though she got Olympic gold she's still hardly anyone's favorite.

Click to expand...

OK, I am going to go out on a limb here (and duck the rotton tomatoes thrown at me). If Sarah had won any other Olympics except the last one, she would have been America's Sweetheart (ala Dorothy Hammil - she's got that kind of personality). However, her win was overshadowed by Michelle Kwan's loss - kind of like every winner in the last few years' golf major tournaments have been overshadowed by Tiger Wood's losses.

Personally, I think that whenever anyone skates a personal best, win or lose, then that is the perfect skate (or golf game, if you want to continue the Wood's analogy). In skating, especially, you cannot control the judges or the other skaters - you can only control your own performance.

 

Last edited: Aug 20, 2003

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NanSinger2

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• Aug 21, 2003

• #16

sk8er1964 said:

If Sarah had won any other Olympics except the last one, she would have been America's Sweetheart (ala Dorothy Hammil - she's got that kind of personality). However, her win was overshadowed by Michelle Kwan's loss - kind of like every winner in the last few years' golf major tournaments have been overshadowed by Tiger Wood's losses.

Click to expand...

I will admit I really wanted Michelle to win, but Sarah's win wouldn't have bothered me so much if she any other wins under her belt, like Irina. I just like to see skaters win the gold who have built up some momentum in previous seasons and competitions. Sarah's win also wouldn't have bothered me to much if she had returned to eligible ranks and continued her growth and shown she was the champion by continued wins against the other women in the field. Yes, she won that night, there's no denying that, but it's tough to swallow that she only won because stronger skaters with better competitive records did not skate their best. Although it's fair, it seems sad that one well placed skate can win the gold. I almost wish you won those medals against a body of work.

That being said, I realize I don't get a vote when it comes to Sarah's choices, and I wish her the best in her future.

 

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skatepixie

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• Aug 21, 2003

• #17

i dont think sarah should have won because of her short program.

I agree about Tina.

carol doesnt apply. Because she realized her potential and won Olympic gold.

Anyone who gets 5th at sectionals over and over.

Maribel Vinson
Cecilia Colledge
Janet Lynn
Barbara Roles
Dorothy Hamill at worlds.....

 

Ogre Mage

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• Aug 21, 2003

• #18

Bridesmaids

Tiffany Chin has to be one of the biggest in my mind. After a strong skate at the '84 Olympics and her win at '85 Nationals, it looked like she was going to be the next big thing. She was a beautiful performer -- both with her jumps as well as the artistry. Unfortunately, she never became the skater I hoped she would be. On a positive note, she inspired Kristi Yamaguchi, who was most definitely NOT a bridesmaid.

It's catty, but I wonder if Tiffany would have done better if her mother wasn't such a *****.

 

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patsue47

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• Aug 21, 2003

• #19

Gotta disagree sk8er1964. Sarah had the skate of "that night" meaning she was the only one of the top four that didn't fall (Sasha, Michelle) or have a lackluster performance (Irina). In no way did she have the "perfect skate" or her personal best. At that point in time she had an adequate skate that enabled her to win when everyone else failed. She was not marked down for her serious flutzing, lack of edges, etc. I feel that is the reason, for some, that Sarah is not looked at the way Dorothy Hamill is (in the America's Sweetheart context). Dorothy had won previous major championships and won the Oly gold outright. No one had to fail for Dorothy to win.

Unfortunately, we'll probably never see Sarah's personal best. We'll most likely not see her win another major comp., and won't see how she would deal with being the overwhelming favorite. She reached her goals- -being in the Olys and winning Oly gold. I
applaud her decision to continue her schooling- -but on the other hand I so much wanted to see her development as an elite skater and to see her maturity reach it's highest level.

So I guess, for me, that despite winning the Oly gold, Sarah is still "A Bridesmaid".

 

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Yazmeen

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• Aug 21, 2003

• #20

I have to come in somewhere between skater1964 and patsue: I think iSLC was Sarah's personal best, but I also think the response to her was affected by Michelle's loss. Regardless of your personal opinion of her, Michelle Kwan is one of the "best loved" skaters of all time. A lot of America watched her grow up and become an amazing skater and competitor, and many of them hurt along with her at both Olympics where she missed gold and were again amazed by her sportsmanship and class at both Olympics.

I also think Sarah's potential for "beloved" (for lack of a better term in this case) status was negatively affected by her not going to Worlds in 2002 and her stunningly poor preparation and season this year. IMO, I think the only thing that saved her from a media backlash this past season was her emphasis on grades and college and her academic life. If she had done the "star turn" that Tara did after her win, Sarah would have been eviscerated in the press for putting in the 2002-03 season that she did. And I say this as a Sarah fan who hurt very much for her favorite, Michelle, at SLC but still was thrilled for Sarah. I hope this makes some sense!!!! In as sense, Sarah is a bridesmaid, and my personal feeling is that we'll never see her in the eligible skating "church" again.