Sashas Edges

mzheng · Sep 2, 2003

Sasha's Insid Edge ....

Someone mentioned before that why Sasha could not transit her perfect leg alignment on spiral to her Lutz picking alignment. Here are a few snapshots show Sasha's Lutzing.

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6205&perpage=15&highlight=Flutzing&pagenumber=6

See posts by 'Andrey aka Pushkin' in that page.

rtureck · Sep 3, 2003

IDLERACER said:
You wanna see some lean on an inside edge?
Check out Sarah:

[url]http://pro.corbis.com/images/watermark/67/14088352/UP959460.jpg[/URL]

Idleracer, that is an intimidatingly, awesome inside edge Sarah achieves an amazing amplitude with a deep inside edge without doing a climbing free leg spiral. Some skater(s) has/ have problem with elevating the free leg during the initiation phase of the FI spiral. They/ she have/ has to elevate the free leg(s) in steps, first elevating the leg(s) to an amplitude about 150 degree, then climb another 20 degree or so, and their/ her @ approaches 90 degrees, i.e. the edges are very shallow. Sarah OTOH is able to sweep up her free leg in one smooth motion to an amplitude about 170 degree. ( No one achieves a 180 degree) That is edge security, but then she is the reigning Olympic champion.

Dewet, no one has the perfect spiral, I think Sarah's spiral is one of the tops in the world. She bends her free leg at the knee a bit , therefore sacrificing the extension, but the other elements of her spiral is tops. Sarah's spiral looks much better in person, in motion.

I will post my ranking of Sarah's spiral again: 89.75 out of a possible 100

Take the different spiral factors and put numeric value of the importance (these values must add up to 10), then rank skaters from 1 - 10, on how well they perform these factors, and sum it up. Of course my numeric value of what is important, and my ranking of the skaters will be different from yours.

edge - I assign the importance value of 3.5
speed - I assign a value of 3
ice coverage - I assign a value of 2
extension - value of 1
amplitude - value of 0.5

I will rank Sarah
edge - I score her as 9.5 (with 10 as the best)
speed - I score her as 9
ice coverage - 9.5
extension - 6
amplitude - 9

Sum of her score 3.5 x 9.5 + 3 x 9 + 2 x 9.5 + 1 x 6 + 0.5 x 9 = 89.75 (out of a possible max of 100)

IDLERACER · Sep 3, 2003

Another Great Inside Edge Shot

lulu · Sep 3, 2003

Sarah does get very nice edges in her spirals.

rtureck · Sep 3, 2003

Idleracer, more Sarah, and more Nicole pictures please.

Can you find some Yukina Ota spirals?

chuckm · Sep 3, 2003

The only negative about Sarah's spiral is the bent knee on the extended leg.

EricAba · Sep 3, 2003

One thing about Sarah is that although her positions aren't the best, she achieves great flow in her spiral sequences. But I even think her positions have improved: I was watching her SP from 2003 Worlds, and I could really see this improvement in the spiral sequence towards the end of this program.

Another skater who acheives great speed and flow in her spiral sequences is Carolina Kostner. Although her positions and extensions aren't the best, she just flies across the ice... her SP from last season really demonstrated this.

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 3, 2003

I agree with you, EricAba. Sarah and Carolina have great flow over the ice. They are fortunate in being tall and long legged which will produce flow. I am aware that both skaters have good speed in their skating but that is my problem. I don't enjoy skaters who emphasize their speed with determined cut backs and crossovers. Sarah and Carolina, imo, are not yet finished skaters. If you notice Yuka Sato's speed and flow (and she is not even long legged) you will understand my preference of skating fast but not forced.

Joe

EricAba · Sep 3, 2003

Joe,

I can see what you're saying re good positions vs. speed and flow. Having watched skating on TV for the most part, I think the former sticks out for me more than the latter. But after seeing Worlds 2003 live, I'm a bit of a convert... Sasha Cohen's spiral, in particular, didn't impress me as much in person as it did on TV. Sure, the extension was great, but in terms of speed, flow and edging, it seemed to be lacking- could be because I was sitting in the "nosebleed" seats

Wish I could see Yuka live, so I can get a sense of a skater who has both good positioning and good speed/flow. In your opinion, what other skaters fit into this category? Kwan? Nikodinov?

EricAba.

Joesitz (RIP) · Sep 3, 2003

EricAba - Oh, we should have sat together and debated the skaters. I think we would have agreed more than disagreed. I too was at the DC Worlds.

I really got a different perspective of the individual skaters performance seeing them 'live'. Sasha's over the top extensions are not bigger than life when viewed live. However, I often looked up at the huge TV display, and Sasha's extensions were fabulous on the screen. I'm not at all sure what the judges are viewing. They have super seats, so their perspective may be better than mine although I had an excellent seat. I think watching live figure skating in that huge arena, one is caught up in the "Whole Package". This is where, MK has the advantage. One doesn't realize there are no 3/3s.

Yes, you must see Yuka live. Incredible - the flow, the stroking and all so quiet.

Joe

StillBlueLake · Sep 3, 2003

I think Fumie seems to skate better live than on TV. I was at Worlds too and found her LP (and SP) most engaging and very very fast. A well deserving bronze medalist IMO.

I agree about Michelle as well.

hockeyfan228 · Sep 3, 2003

EricAba said:
Another skater who acheives great speed and flow in her spiral sequences is Carolina Kostner. Although her positions and extensions aren't the best, she just flies across the ice... her SP from last season really demonstrated this.

In her long program, she did four spirals, each of which had a change of position and/or edge. This was quietly, without aplomb one of the most difficult sequences of 03 Worlds. She still needs to hold them longer and get a sense of shape and emphasis to them, and I agree with Joesitz that she is not yet a "finished" skater. But while she was very fast across the ice, I never thought she was rushing, and she used the entire rink when she skated her LP in DC.

gezando · Sep 3, 2003

Sasha's edges are OK, average for a senior skater. Her worst is the FIO (forward almost flat supposed to be FI) edge of the COE spiral, the FO edge is better.

mpal2 · Sep 3, 2003

Has anyone noticed that the pictures of Sarah's spirals aren't even straight. When you tilt your head to align with the background, the lean is not as good, it's enhanced because of the crooked picture. I'll need to go back and check other pictures posted earlier, but that is just another reason why a still shot of a spiral will never do it justice.

Let me know when you find pictures where the background is actually aligned so the lean is not enhanced by visual effects.

Edited: I didn't see the picture posted by Idle.
Sorry, yours doesn't have the weird alignment problem. That one seems to straight.

skatepixie · Sep 3, 2003

Sarah gets nice edge, but her free leg is bent and her position isnt pleasing to the eye.

shine · Sep 3, 2003

I like Sarah's spiral its powerful yet smooth sailing quality and the deep inside edge...something Sasha will never have.

fanforlady2001 · Sep 3, 2003

I like sarah's spiral better then sasha's it just looks more appealing. I know everyone has different opinion's, I just like Sarah's better. I like sarah's layback too.

rtureck · Sep 4, 2003

skatepixie said:
Sarah gets nice edge, but her free leg is bent and her position isnt pleasing to the eye.

Sarah's has a bend at her knee that contributes less to extension, but other than that all her other spiral elements are tops. Sarah's spiral is very pleasing to watch, especially if you watch her live, spiral is a MITF, emphasis on movement, it is posing for a still picture.

registered · Sep 4, 2003

If Sarah's inside edge is so strong, how come she's not capable of taking off it on her Lutz jumps?

I don't find spirals with bent free leg appealing. That's why Michelle's and Sarah's don't quite work for me.

rtureck · Sep 4, 2003

registered said:
If Sarah's inside edge is so strong, how come she's not capable of taking off it on her Lutz jumps?

I don't find spirals with bent free leg appealing. That's why Michelle's and Sarah's don't quite work for me.

Your first question: Why do skaters flutz, I am not a skater, I don't know. Why does Sarah/ Cohen flutz? Is th ability to do a lutz a function of strong inside edge?

Sarah has a intimidatingly strong awesome FI edge spiral, with tops ice coverage.

Second comment from you about bend knee/ extension:

Sarah has a bend at her knee, therefore she sacrifice some extension point. But different strokes for different folks. I asked Pixie, or anyone to rank the importance of each spiral element and then rank skaters. I am sure everyone has a different opinion about what makes a good spiral. So the reigning Olys champ and the reigning world/ US champ does not impress you. They impressed the judges

BTW, JMHO, Kristi, Michelle, Yuka are examples of skaters who have, excellent extension. Maybe you are seeing a bend in one of them that most others do not see. But if we want to be picky about bend, I think one of the pictures provided by you demonstrated a bend at the ankle on the skating leg, a bend at the ankle is still a bend, and it breaks the visual line, JMHO. Don't throw any tomatoes at me.

Sashas Edges

mzheng

rtureck

IDLERACER

lulu

rtureck

chuckm

EricAba

Joesitz (RIP)

EricAba

Joesitz (RIP)

StillBlueLake

hockeyfan228

gezando

mpal2

skatepixie

shine

fanforlady2001

rtureck

registered

rtureck

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