The VP Candidate from Alaska | Golden Skate

The VP Candidate from Alaska

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
She has the power of her convictions. I like that even though I do not agree with much of her convictions.

I know about lots of politicians who have / had the power of their convictions - the results were often questionable at best, if not devastating.

I don't want to pretend that I understand anything about your politics over there and I don't think I even want to try. But I seeing the campaign websites of Obama and McCain - I just can't shake off the feeling that the victims of Katrina were very unlucky because their catastrophe didn't happen in the election year.

Do the VPs even matter? Weren't they just chosen to pacify the voters? McCain chose someone who is young, pretty and fresh and very Christian - to balance his age and indifference towards certain conservative matters, Obama chose someone old and experienced - to balance his inexperience and youth.

E.g. if McCain wanted a woman - why not Condoleezza Rice? She is 53, it's not like she already has one foot in the grave. She has tons of experience, she was a professor at Stanford for political science, she was a diplomatic advisor during the end of the cold war, she was in charge of Stanford and sorted out the financial problems there, she is the secretary of state. What's the problem with her? Is she too driven, too ambitious, too much of an overachiever? Is it the fact that she is pro-choice and no former beauty queen? Is it that she doesn't have a perfect family to show off on stage, is not your average hockey mom and has no son going to Irak? Because having a son serving in Iraq apparently qualifies you to be president:

as the mother of a soldier herself, Governor Palin understands what it takes to lead our nation and she understands the importance of supporting our troops.

That's from the official press release of the McCain campaign! I mean, they are kidding, right? They have to be.
 

bronxgirl

Medalist
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
i firmly believe that if her gender was male, she would never have been even considered, let alone chosen. Women look at issues (at least this woman does), and don't vote with their uterus.
 

lmarie086

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
I'd have to agree with Medusa. If a woman were to chosen, I'd have gone with Condoleeza Rice. Sarah Palin doesn't do much to impress me. It was a wasted move to try to appeal to women who just want to vote for a woman. Thankfully I'm not one of those-the issues are more important.
It'll be interesting to see how she holds up in debates against Joe Biden.
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
I know that the election shouldn't be about personal stuff and the candidate's families - but the irony in this made me smile.
 

decker

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
I know that the election shouldn't be about personal stuff and the candidate's families - but the irony in this made me smile.

Me too. And my sympathy for the candidate is limited. If you choose to run on "family values," you have to be prepared that it could come back on you. And on your family member, which I do think is unfortunate since she didn't control her mother's choice of issues.

I find the strategy of the nomination insulting. Not only do I not vote with my uterus, I won't vote for someone just because she has a uterus. But I'm not exactly the targeted audience. I voted for Clinton in the primary, but I'm a yellow-dog Democrat. There was never a snowball's chance I'd go GOP.

Susan
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I believe this will be a big test for her (family values) and see how she handles it. I hope she can do better than those numerous other 'soul savers' with their "lord, i have sinned" confessions. I just can't buy that.

But willing to listen to her explain what a parent should do with an illegitimate pregnancy of an offspring.
 

sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
She just makes voting for Obama more and more easier every day!! LOL

Actually my problem isn't that her daughter is pregnant. The problem is that she promotes abstience (spelling???) and didn't want schools to have sex education. Well apparently she's not very convincing is she?

Also, think about this....if McCain were to die or something bad happen to him...would you want her as your president? Just a thought.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Considering I live in Alaska, I know what Sarah is capable of. She's gone up against her party in this state to the point where she first ticked off a lot of well known and well liked Republicans... and then when it turned out she was not only right but good things happened she became an instant success in their eyes. She's not 'big oil' as much as the media is claiming. She actually voted AGAINST and chose a different company than the two big ones here in AK (BP and ConocoPhillips) when it came to the Alaska - Canada pipeline that we're hoping to see built. She's also upped the regulations and taxes of the oil companies in the state. She doesn't just push their crap under a rug like others have *cough*Murkowski*cough*

Her daughter's pregnancy is sad, but at the same time things happen. I can't imagine how hard this is for Bristol. It's bad enough to have your parents know, it's worse when the whole nation knows and uses it against the ones you love. AFAIK, Palin wants abstinence taught in schools ALONGSIDE safe sex... unless she changed her stance in the last two years and I failed to notice (wouldn't surprise me if I did). What disgusts me most is the way they were forced to talk about it, not because it had been noticed but because the media was circulating a report that Trig (Sarah's youngest) was really Bristol's son. It's just sick what they can get away with when it comes to 'reporting news' the national media is getting as bad as the tabloids. It's also why I'm a thorn in the side of a lot of my journalism professors because I don't see how that is fair/balanced journalism. Much less journalism at all! :laugh:

I personally think McCain's choice is a good one, whether or not he truly believes that is irrelevant to me. And either way when this is all over Alaska wins. Either we get to brag that the VP came from Alaska... or we get our Governor back!
 
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sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Thanks Toni for that view from a true Alaskan! I appreciate it. It's going to be an interesting election, that's for sure.
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
AFAIK, Palin wants abstinence taught in schools ALONGSIDE safe sex... unless she changed her stance in the last two years and I failed to notice (wouldn't surprise me if I did).

[...]

I personally think McCain's choice is a good one, whether or not he truly believes that is irrelevant to me. And either way when this is all over Alaska wins. Either we get to brag that the VP came from Alaska... or we get our Governor back!

"Explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support,"

Sounds pretty clear to me. She didn't elaborate what "explicit" means - but this sounds to me like she is against sex-ed.

I don't know how you see this - but getting pregnant is in my opinion one of the better things that can happen to you when you have unsafe sex - what about STDs, what about HIV / AIDS? In my opinion this woman is nothing but grossly negligent if she is against explicit sex-ed. She (and everyone who is promoting abstinence-only talk) is risking the lives and health of children and young people everywhere. Young people need to be told how to protect themselves in heterosexual and homosexual relationships, they need to know what's dangerous and what's not, they need to know about the consequences, all the consequences, of unsafe sexual behaviour.

Q: What are your views on abortion?

A: I am pro-life. With the exception of a doctor's determination that the mother's life would end if the pregnancy continued. I believe that no matter what mistakes we make as a society, we cannot condone ending an
Source is Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul 31, 2006

She is against abortion in cases of rape and incest! Who does she think she is to make this decision for women who went through hell?

Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if elected governor?

A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the venues of education for their children.
2. Preserving the definition of "marriage" as defined in our constitution.
3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd Amendment rights.
Source is Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul 31, 2006

So preserving the definition of marriage (read: no same-sex marriage) is as important - or even more important (because it's point number 2) - than reducing gang violence and drug use. I just love people who have got their priorities straight.

Q: Will you support the right of parents to opt out their children from curricula, books, classes, or surveys, which parents consider privacy-invading or offensive to their religion or conscience?

A: Yes. Parents should have the ultimate control over what their children are taught.
Source is Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul 31, 2006

Hmm. Yeah. I know that this is a pretty common view in some countries. Still find it questionable. Not possible here (Germany) though. You get thrown into prison if you don't send your kids to a public school or a government approved private school. I think it's the same in France.

Governor Sarah Palin today lauded the U.S. Supreme Court's landmark decision upholding the right of Americans to own guns for self-defense, hunting and other purposes. The high court's 5-4 ruling in District of Columbia vs. Heller affirmed gun rights by striking down the District's 32-year-old ban on handguns.

"This decision is a victory for all Alaskans and individual Americans. The right to own guns and use them responsibly is something I and many other Alaskans cherish," Governor Palin said. "I applaud the Court for standing up for the Constitution and the right of Americans to keep and bear arms."
Source: Governor's office press release, "2nd Amendment Decision" Jun 26, 2008

Other purposes?

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Tonichelle said:
I personally think McCain's choice is a good one

Why is it a good one? What qualifies her for the job? What qualifies her in contrast to Condoleezza Rice, or McCain's personal favourite for the job, Joe Liebermann? In my opinion this choice is founded on a few superficial issues and not on experience or abilities.

McCain wanted to pacify the evangelical voters - job well done, I guess. Now we all know that if the whole abstinence talk isn't working we have to accept it and make sure that the 17-year-old (!) poor girl is married tout de suite, so the child won't be born out of wedlock, will grow up in a beautiful world without STDs, with lots of gun-loving - but of course responsible - people, the child will grow up to know that it is living in a "real, legally and religiously approved" family, because there is a mommy and a daddy who are married (if not divorced at that point - I feel damn sorry for that girl, by the way).

In a world where a second cold war is on our doorstep, in a world where the threat of terrorism has not been reduced since September 11th, in a world where the sudden surge of food prices is going to cause disastrous famines in Africa and Asia, in a world where we have to find new solutions to our energy crisis, in a world where the economical situation is going downhill on your side and on our side of the Atlantic, in a world where old conflicts reawaken and new ones arise, in a world where real democracy and free speech is still a rarity - choosing this woman as one of the most powerful people in this world is the best McCain could do?
 

Ptichka

Forum translator
Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 28, 2003
E.g. if McCain wanted a woman - why not Condoleezza Rice?
Discussion on that here - http://goldenskate.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=176. In short, she has the same strengths (foreign policy, security) and same weaknesses (economy) as he does.

What disgusts me most is the way they were forced to talk about it, not because it had been noticed but because the media was circulating a report that Trig (Sarah's youngest) was really Bristol's son
Have to agree with you there. It didn't even occur to those "journalists" (and I am using the term loosely here) that it's far more likely to have a Down syndrome child when you're in your 40's!

BTW, Toni, what's your take on the investigation into firing of Palin's ex-brother-in-law? From here, it seems that she's certainly guilty. Which, in my book, is not even a matter of abuse of power, but of plain stupidity (why risk your career over this obviously vindictive act; it's not like him not having that job would have made it more likely he gave up on the custody battle; and, IMHO, her "cover up" of the whole thing isn't too believable). I had the same reaction way back way to Monicagate, BTW - couldn't care less what Clinton did with whom, but couldn't believe he would risk so much for that, nor that he lied about it so stupidly.

In general, this choice made it neither more nor less likely for me to vote McCain. He did not choose anyone as socially conservative as Huckabee (which would have insured I voted Obama), he chose someone who most certainly has a mind of her own, and while I thought McCain/ Romney would have been a stronger ticket, a McCain/ Palin one is far more likely to be a good working team (McCain has too obvious a disdain for Romney). I have always been a McCain supporter, but must admit that I am having some second thoughts lately. I liked the Economist headline last week - "Bring back the real McCain". I can only second the argument. The McCain I respect wanted new tax cuts but also did not want to make Bush's ones permanent; supported an enlightened immigration policy; was an environmental crusader, etc. With how McCain has been lately, I am probably about 60% likely to vote for him (not that the Massachusetts vote matters anyway).

Of the 4 Pres & VP candidates in question, I'd personally rate their them as follows:
  1. McCain
  2. Biden
  3. Obama
  4. Palin

She (and everyone who is promoting abstinence-only talk) is risking the lives and health of children and young people everywhere. Young people need to be told how to protect themselves in heterosexual and homosexual relationships, they need to know what's dangerous and what's not, they need to know about the consequences, all the consequences, of unsafe sexual behaviour.
Must agree here.
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Yes, under the circumstances, Sarah Palin is probably the best McCain could do.

What I see as McCain's issue that is most important to him is against wasteful pork barrel spending and undue influence of lobbyists on government. Consider the difficulties of finding a Republican untainted by lobbyists under the Bush administration in Washington. Diogenes had a easy task compared to McCain. The entire of Republican Washington elite was in bed with Abramov.

Sarah Palin has an excellent record of vetoing pork barrel spending, refusing the Bridge to Nowhere, and fighting government corruption in Alaska. That fits well with McCain's particular message.

Condi Rice knows all about international affairs, but she has never held an elective office. The hole in McCain's resume is not international affairs, it's the day to day executive governance issues. A governor is a good choice for him.

McCain has said he does not envision a strong VP ala Cheney. He pictures the job of the VP as presiding over the Senate and checking McCain's health daily.

Palin was not chosen to appeal to Clinton voters--she was chosen to shore up the Republican base. From the reports coming out of the convention and the amount of $ McCain donated in the last couple days, it worked.
 

Ptichka

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Jul 28, 2003
McCain has said he does not envision a strong VP ala Cheney. He pictures the job of the VP as presiding over the Senate and checking McCain's health daily.
Yes, but McCain's VP choice is far more important than Obama's. I mean, no matter how we looks at it, there is a chance that something will happen to McCain's health (remember Ariel Sharon!) and Palin will have to take over. So, if you consider Obama to be a decent enough choice for president (which I do), but prefer McCain (which I do), you have to ask if you can live with the possibility of the Palin presidency. The more I think of it, the less certain I am that I can.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
OTOH, Obama could also die. Presidents often get shot. In my lifetime, JFK, Reagan, and Gerry Ford were all shot at. I am fine with Joe Biden as VP.

Plus Obama's mother and grandfather both died of cancer. And his father died young as well.

However, it's not the question of whether the young Palin might be president on short experience (and very unlikely that it McCain would die in the first year, so she surely would have a lot more experience by the time he died, if he does die. It's a given that the young Obama would be president on very similar experience in January, if he is elected.

This is a tempest in a teapot to me. Bottomline, it's the two presidential candidates that we should be voting for or against, not their VP choices.

I feel they both made relatively good choices, considering.

And it means a lot to me that both Toni, who's relatively conservative, and Lainerb, an Alaskan gay guy who is more liberal than Obama, both have respect for Palin. Because she's a blank slate to us in the lower 48, we are letting journalists and politicians who know nothing about Alaska define her to us. I think we should wait to hear more from her own mouth before passing judgment.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think Medusa's list of quotes about Palin are fascinating.

Most politicians will avoid the WMD cause of the Bush invasion and the subsequent notion that Hussein was dealing with Niger for plutonium. So many lies. By the standards of Nixon Bush was worse. It's honest Abe's quote "You can fool all of the people some of the time".

and she did avoid anything about Bush, but speaks out for the right to arm. and take control of her grandchild?

Joe Biden is looking so much better.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
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Jun 27, 2003
Sex-ed in the public school system (or explicit sex-ed) means that abstinence is not taught and I'm not sure how it's taught in other school systems but here in Alaska you're not just taught 'safe sex' you're pretty much taught how to do it. I was 14 and basically got introduced to porn.

I know that's probably not as shocking in other parts of the world, but it is a little much for here in the US (and I would think in Alaska, but maybe not lol).

I live here in Alaska and she hasn't waged war on the sex ed in that we don't know what safe sex is. I agree that it needs to be taught and like others have said I'm one of those uber conservatives for the most part (I'm not sure I fit the evangelical right, but I guess I sorta fit). Where she's fought is to allow abstinence to be one of the parts of sex ed that's taught. When I was a freshman in high school (when you get 'true' sex ed up here) it wasn't an option. The teacher came out the first day and said each and everyone of us will have at least three sexual encounters by our high school graduation. And I guess I failed that. :laugh:
Abstinence was never a part of the equation until my parents fought to have me opt out of a 'manditory' video on sexual positions (no joke). I had to do a presentation on abstinence. It has been part of the curriculum since then (and I think the video is no longer used in her class).... it was just WAY too much for my 14 year old brain to deal with.

I think so long as there is a balance it works... I know a lot who have just had one or the other (safe sex or abstinence) and they all end up pregnant or stuck with an STD anyway, so obviously it's not 100% effective on either side.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
She just makes voting for Obama more and more easier every day!!

I have the same feeling. Even though I am too conservative, and didn't like the democrats' view about the same sex marrage at all, The Obama-Biden team looks a lot better, and more convincing.


The problem is that she promotes abstience (spelling???) and didn't want schools to have sex education. Well apparently she's not very convincing is she?

I think that abstinence should go along with sex education.

On the issue about the right to own guns, I really don't understand the Americans. A policy cannot rely on an ideal that everyone who own guns actually take the responsibilities. If the government have the gun control, the US will be a lot safer.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
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Jun 27, 2003
funny thing, a lot of the "McCain - Palin" tshirts that are circulating have been... modified... up here. On the back "Go Sarah!" has been added :laugh:
 
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Ptichka

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Jul 28, 2003
The whole thing about sex ed is tough. When it's taught too early, kids will sometimes actually develop problems as a result. I've talked to more than one little boy who started wondering if he was gay because he wasn't yet attracted to girls. Yes, I do think it's good to pass on the message that homosexuality is not "wrong", but it shouldn't quite go that far.

And yes, I do agree that abstinence should be a part of the equation. What's more, it should go hand in hand with female empowerment. Sexual revolution was originally partly driven by liberation of women. Now, though, we see girls (and we are talking little girls, still in middle school - scares the heck out of me, frankly!) engage in various sexual activity. Don't tell me they do it because they really want to - they do it because they are too afraid not to do it for fear of not being the popular ones! The only way I see of fighting this is to promote self confidence and self reliance in girls. The only "talk" that has ever worked to make me delay certain activity was along that line - it came from a family friend who explained to me how attractive the girl "with restraint" is. (I unfortunately do not know of any effective way to promote abstinence among boys.)

Having said all that, I still think it's very important to talk to kids about birth control and protection from STDs. Even for girls who will abstain from sex while in school, it doesn't hurt to know about the different types of hormonal birth control out there and how it works; this knowledge can come in handy when the time comes for the girl to discuss those options with her doctor.
 
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