- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Mathman - You really like my quote? Without being religiously offensive, it just might be true.
Joe
Joe
Why Kwan won't go pro...ever
- Thread starter Kwanisqueen81
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
I have absolutely no idea what she will do, and if we buy into her recent press, neither does she.
I will however say the following:
1) Don't believe all that you hear.
Quotes at thier worst are nothing more than non committal spin skaters put on media questions so that they can retain some privacy while not alienating fans.
Quotes at thier best are nothing more than what the skater is feeling/thinking at that specific moment.
For years and years my favorite color was blue. Now my favorite color is red, and has been for quite some time. Was I telling the truth when I said that I loved blue? Yes. Is it still how I feel today? No.
I wouldn't waste more than a minute predicting the future based on what a skater once said.
2) Money....it's a non issue.
Prize money is pocket change for someone like Kwan. She makes the bulk of her money from Disney, Chevy and Tom Collins, all of which she would still have if pro or eligable.
Any skater who is famous enough to make money as a pro, is famous enough to make money as an eligable. Money is a dead issue. The ISU put the final nail in that coffin when it started allowing the eligables to make money back in the early 90s.
3) Stop dissing the pro world.
Obviously all of the cheesy post-Tonya/Nancy events have spoiled us into unreality. Pro skating is no worse off than it was when Kat Witt or Sonja Henie went pro. In fact, its better off as they have COI and SOI rather than just Disney or Ice Capades. Even the dreadful Hip-Hop on Ice was more than Barbara Ann Scott had back in the day. IMHO, it was the class skating of Kristi, Boitano, Wylie and Kurt that made the boom years good. The events (Ice wars, Gold, etc..) were all bs, and no better or worse than skating thru Donald Duck's birthday cake frosting.
Sonja, John Curry, Scott Hamilton, Peggy: all turned pro and entered a black hole of inoportunity. All created something spectacular.
Ask not what pro skating can do for the famous skater, but rather what the famous skater can do for pro skating.
4) It's not a sport, it's a lifestyle.
Why did Kristi give up a very big shot at double gold and instead work her butt off to keep a high level of competiveness in the pro world?
Lifestyle.
Her words, not mine.
5) As good as gold.
IMHO, there is no practical reason for feeling Kwan would have turned pro after Nagano gold.
Not only did she prove that one can lose the gold medal and still be rich and famous the world over, but just think of all the "Kwan vs. Lipinski: the rematch" pro events that they would have created for her/them even if she turned pro after silver.
She didn't want to. End of story. It's about "lifestyle".
I will however say the following:
1) Don't believe all that you hear.
Quotes at thier worst are nothing more than non committal spin skaters put on media questions so that they can retain some privacy while not alienating fans.
Quotes at thier best are nothing more than what the skater is feeling/thinking at that specific moment.
For years and years my favorite color was blue. Now my favorite color is red, and has been for quite some time. Was I telling the truth when I said that I loved blue? Yes. Is it still how I feel today? No.
I wouldn't waste more than a minute predicting the future based on what a skater once said.
2) Money....it's a non issue.
Prize money is pocket change for someone like Kwan. She makes the bulk of her money from Disney, Chevy and Tom Collins, all of which she would still have if pro or eligable.
Any skater who is famous enough to make money as a pro, is famous enough to make money as an eligable. Money is a dead issue. The ISU put the final nail in that coffin when it started allowing the eligables to make money back in the early 90s.
3) Stop dissing the pro world.
Obviously all of the cheesy post-Tonya/Nancy events have spoiled us into unreality. Pro skating is no worse off than it was when Kat Witt or Sonja Henie went pro. In fact, its better off as they have COI and SOI rather than just Disney or Ice Capades. Even the dreadful Hip-Hop on Ice was more than Barbara Ann Scott had back in the day. IMHO, it was the class skating of Kristi, Boitano, Wylie and Kurt that made the boom years good. The events (Ice wars, Gold, etc..) were all bs, and no better or worse than skating thru Donald Duck's birthday cake frosting.
Sonja, John Curry, Scott Hamilton, Peggy: all turned pro and entered a black hole of inoportunity. All created something spectacular.
Ask not what pro skating can do for the famous skater, but rather what the famous skater can do for pro skating.
4) It's not a sport, it's a lifestyle.
Why did Kristi give up a very big shot at double gold and instead work her butt off to keep a high level of competiveness in the pro world?
Lifestyle.
Her words, not mine.
5) As good as gold.
IMHO, there is no practical reason for feeling Kwan would have turned pro after Nagano gold.
Not only did she prove that one can lose the gold medal and still be rich and famous the world over, but just think of all the "Kwan vs. Lipinski: the rematch" pro events that they would have created for her/them even if she turned pro after silver.
She didn't want to. End of story. It's about "lifestyle".
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I hear yeah. The Haters wan't her gone so other could move up in rank. Meanwhile they could do that now if they could out skate her day in & day out. It has been done before. 1998 & 2002. Why should someone be forced to retire (Under the age of 25 ) because, some may want other to get the spot light, meanwhile they haven't yet earned the top spot:sheesh:. I do know that one day she will no longer be 1 of the top skaters in the world. & it will be a sad day when she does leave the sport. But, the Professional ranks have seen better days. There is not that much left for the skaters of today. I too think that she will try to stick around until 2006. I hope that she does. I would love to see her skate. Will she medal. I don't know. Gold seems like a long shot. But, you never.know.Joesitz said:
I will say this when ever Michelle, Irina, Alexei & Plushenko retire or leave the sport. It will be a sad day.
There's nothing in the pro world because of over exposure of crap. So there's no point of that. I'm sure one of the reasons is that she would like to give the Olympics another try but even she has to know that that can't be the only reason because after all of this the Olympic gold just may not be in her fate.
I agree,
she'll never go pro!
When Michelle's done with skating I say she'll simply
just retire, while retaining her eligibility should she ever get the itch again and want to return to competitive competiton.
The pro circut is all but non-exsistant.
Also, like has been said, the amount of "cheese"
has ruined it's image as well.
she'll never go pro!
When Michelle's done with skating I say she'll simply
just retire, while retaining her eligibility should she ever get the itch again and want to return to competitive competiton.
The pro circut is all but non-exsistant.
Also, like has been said, the amount of "cheese"
has ruined it's image as well.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I think fans are of the assumption that figure skating is a sport for little girls and once they pass 20 they should go pro, whatever that means.
I think those fans are wrong to want over-20 skaters to drop out of 'eligible' skating for prodom, but hey, that's me. Maybe we could limit the age of girls to 19, but not for me!
Joe
I think those fans are wrong to want over-20 skaters to drop out of 'eligible' skating for prodom, but hey, that's me. Maybe we could limit the age of girls to 19, but not for me!
Joe
Joe,
It may be possible to limit the age of girls to 19, since I know a lot of women who impose their own personal "age limits". My mother, for instance, has been celebrating her 29th birthday for decades now
But seriously, I agree that beautiful skating should know no age limits. As for Kwan, I get the feeling that the "competitive edge" is in her blood, and as long as the body and mind are willing, she will still be out there, competing with the best of them... Just look at Martina Navratilova, winning two Grand Slam Mixed Doubles titles and competing in a Grand Slam Doubles Final at the age of 47!!
I think that Kwan will set a new standard for longevity in the sport of figure skating... we may even see her in 2010.
EricAba.
It may be possible to limit the age of girls to 19, since I know a lot of women who impose their own personal "age limits". My mother, for instance, has been celebrating her 29th birthday for decades now
But seriously, I agree that beautiful skating should know no age limits. As for Kwan, I get the feeling that the "competitive edge" is in her blood, and as long as the body and mind are willing, she will still be out there, competing with the best of them... Just look at Martina Navratilova, winning two Grand Slam Mixed Doubles titles and competing in a Grand Slam Doubles Final at the age of 47!!
I think that Kwan will set a new standard for longevity in the sport of figure skating... we may even see her in 2010.
EricAba.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
"It may be possible to limit the age of girls to 19, since I know a lot of women who impose their own personal "age limits". My mother, for instance, has been celebrating her 29th birthday for decades now." 
Joe-I agree with you that skaters are still in the prime of their careers after 20. If everyone retired after the age of 19 we would lose a lot of wonderful skaters. There is no incentive to turn "pro" so as long as Michelle is willing and able to continue to compete why should she stop.
Joe-I agree with you that skaters are still in the prime of their careers after 20. If everyone retired after the age of 19 we would lose a lot of wonderful skaters. There is no incentive to turn "pro" so as long as Michelle is willing and able to continue to compete why should she stop.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2003
ladies rise your 20 and over card!!!
AMEN!!
I love hearing everyone's opinion about this. Really the topic of going pro is not limited to Michelle. I hope Irina doesn't go pro anytime soon either. Maria Bute, Elena Sokalova, Irina, Michelle, Angela, all the 20 and over crowd....I just respect the hell out of them. To be so dedicated to this sport year after year. We all know our sport has the image of young little girls(without curves, hips, and breasts). That model has never jived well with me because from my prospective this is LADIES skating, not LITTLE GIRLS skating. I like seeing a world champ with a bust line. I like seeing mature presentation on the ice. I like fully rotated triple jumps. That, to me, is just a classic ideal of ladies skating. Continueing the tradiation of Hamil, Fleming, Witt, Lynn, Albright, and all the others who came before. It is more than just Michelle but the long term health of our sport. I mean since the end of school figures the youth movement began.(Ending school figures was the right thing to do but they also should have had a age restriction so skaters can learn to skate on edges before lern triples). Tara, Osksana, and Michelle herself were all apart of this apperent youth movement in the mid- 90's. I think it is so ironic that Michelle who you could argue was the face of the youth movement in '95 is the face of career longevity in elite skating today....I love how she just pisses off people who don't like her, by her further success!!!Which idea of figure skating do you want to see come 20 years from now? Skaters continueing their career well in to their 20s or burnt with injuries our by 16? We as fans should embress this change the pindulium has swung back to the 20 and over crowd!
AMEN!!
I love hearing everyone's opinion about this. Really the topic of going pro is not limited to Michelle. I hope Irina doesn't go pro anytime soon either. Maria Bute, Elena Sokalova, Irina, Michelle, Angela, all the 20 and over crowd....I just respect the hell out of them. To be so dedicated to this sport year after year. We all know our sport has the image of young little girls(without curves, hips, and breasts). That model has never jived well with me because from my prospective this is LADIES skating, not LITTLE GIRLS skating. I like seeing a world champ with a bust line. I like seeing mature presentation on the ice. I like fully rotated triple jumps. That, to me, is just a classic ideal of ladies skating. Continueing the tradiation of Hamil, Fleming, Witt, Lynn, Albright, and all the others who came before. It is more than just Michelle but the long term health of our sport. I mean since the end of school figures the youth movement began.(Ending school figures was the right thing to do but they also should have had a age restriction so skaters can learn to skate on edges before lern triples). Tara, Osksana, and Michelle herself were all apart of this apperent youth movement in the mid- 90's. I think it is so ironic that Michelle who you could argue was the face of the youth movement in '95 is the face of career longevity in elite skating today....I love how she just pisses off people who don't like her, by her further success!!!Which idea of figure skating do you want to see come 20 years from now? Skaters continueing their career well in to their 20s or burnt with injuries our by 16? We as fans should embress this change the pindulium has swung back to the 20 and over crowd!
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- Joined
- Aug 1, 2003
Berthe, I love your post! Especially the part about what the famous skater could do for the pro world. I wish the USFSA would yank 95% of the money making ability away from the eligibles so they'd have some incentive to get the heck out after they've won every comp in sight. I liked the turnover every 4 years. Unfortunately I never see that happening.
Truly no offense meant, but I hope Michelle gives it up before '06. I don't think I can stomach the will she/won't she crap that will totally dominate the coverage if she does go. And, hey, if she didn't get it in Nagano chances are she'll be totally off the podium in '06. She's not improving, she hasn't improved in years. I love her, she's great, and extremely good at what she does, but what she does is play it safe and that's starting to get really boring. I wish she'd go pro and rivive the comps there. I'd love to see she and Irina slug it out along with Butyrskaya and the rest of the ones that have been around too long.
Especially the part about what the famous skater could do for the pro world. I wish the USFSA would yank 95% of the money making ability away from the eligibles so they'd have some incentive to get the heck out after they've won every comp in sight. I liked the turnover every 4 years. Unfortunately I never see that happening.Truly no offense meant, but I hope Michelle gives it up before '06. I don't think I can stomach the will she/won't she crap that will totally dominate the coverage if she does go. And, hey, if she didn't get it in Nagano chances are she'll be totally off the podium in '06. She's not improving, she hasn't improved in years. I love her, she's great, and extremely good at what she does, but what she does is play it safe and that's starting to get really boring. I wish she'd go pro and rivive the comps there. I'd love to see she and Irina slug it out along with Butyrskaya and the rest of the ones that have been around too long.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
AHEM,
I don't know & None of us here knows for sure if she would have turned pro afterwards. We can only go by what she has said. She loves to compete. By her past attitude toward the sport. I seriously doubt if she would have turned pro after 1998. After 1998 & 2002 when everyone ( anti Fans) wanted her to retire & turn pro. & after the 2002 games where she came in 3rd. Not being edged out like in 1998. Everyone said that she should hang up her competive skates. What did she do. Took her time & found the fun in skating for her again. & WON her 7th national Title & 5 World title. Some athletes have to be dragged aways from the sport. No matter how many titles they have. They live for their sport. To me she seems like one of them.
VIETgrlTerifa said:
I don't know & None of us here knows for sure if she would have turned pro afterwards. We can only go by what she has said. She loves to compete. By her past attitude toward the sport. I seriously doubt if she would have turned pro after 1998. After 1998 & 2002 when everyone ( anti Fans) wanted her to retire & turn pro. & after the 2002 games where she came in 3rd. Not being edged out like in 1998. Everyone said that she should hang up her competive skates. What did she do. Took her time & found the fun in skating for her again. & WON her 7th national Title & 5 World title. Some athletes have to be dragged aways from the sport. No matter how many titles they have. They live for their sport. To me she seems like one of them.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Of course, EricAbba and Dllk - We are so used to saying sweet things about little girls, we've lost contact with the sport I'm not against little girls. I think Juniors and Juvenile divisions is where they belong. I want to look at the strong mature skating Ladies like Irina, Elena, Angela, Amber, etc. Yet no one is saying they should go pro. Why is it just MK?
The very nonKran fans have created this aura around MK, moreso than the Kwaniacs. You figure.
Joe
The very nonKran fans have created this aura around MK, moreso than the Kwaniacs. You figure.
Joe
My guess is that all of the focus is on Kwan going pro because she's been a champion for so long. It makes her seem like she's older, even than others who have been competing as long as she has, because she's been in the spotlight for so long. To some, it's all about the champion stepping down to make room for the younger generations.
Mind you, I don't share this opinion. I'm a big fan of the "geriatric set", and as I said earlier in this thread, as long as the athlete has the body, mindset, and desire to compete, I think they should, no matter how old they are.
Mind you, I don't share this opinion. I'm a big fan of the "geriatric set", and as I said earlier in this thread, as long as the athlete has the body, mindset, and desire to compete, I think they should, no matter how old they are.
I'm caught between the two: I think MK can remain eligible as long as she likes, and I think she still has the ability to up the technical and do more. At the same time, like Peach, part of me would LOVE to see her go pro and team with someone like Brian B. and get the pro world going and back on fire with real, serious, Landover like competitions.
Most of all, I just want to see Michelle keep on skating. But its her life and her decision. She has nothing left to prove to anyone except perhaps herself.
Most of all, I just want to see Michelle keep on skating. But its her life and her decision. She has nothing left to prove to anyone except perhaps herself.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Oh, Peachstatesk8er, Michelle isn't boring, she's like the dawn. Yes it's true, every morning the sun comes up. It came up yesterday, it will come up tomorrow. But it will come up gloriously, heralding the new day, shouting "God's in His heaven and all's right with the world!"
Anyway, bottom line -- it's not on Michelle to step down, it's on the other ladies to step up.
Mathman
Anyway, bottom line -- it's not on Michelle to step down, it's on the other ladies to step up.
Mathman
Mathman said:Oh, Michelle isn't boring, she's like the dawn. Yes it's true, every morning the sun comes up. It came up yesterday, it will come up tomorrow. But it will come up gloriously, heralding the new day, shouting "God's in His heaven and all's right with the world!"
Mathman
Herr professor Math Mann, Michelle is like the dawn? Is that the best you can do, you mean you are not writing a poem about Michelle, or think of a piece of music for her or something.
The Messiah won't come and Michelle won't go ~ Joesitz
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
I am not a huge fan of ladies skating, so may I inject a rather impartial
opinion here? Everyone has been writing Michelle off for so long, and she
keeps winning. "She hasn't been improving?" Really? Does everyone else
just flat out suck then? If she hasn't been improving, the competition must
be going down the toilet because she keeps beating them. There is nothing
wrong with playing it safe. Alexei won his gold medal by playing it safe, and
there's nothing wrong with that. Evgeni won his 2001 World title by playing
it safe. That doesn't mean the programs were easy, by any stretch of the
imagination. Consistency wins medals....
Turnover every four years? Lose Evgeni, Alexei, Alexander Abt? To what?
SOI? Disney on Ice? Please God, no.....
If you don't want to see the hype if Michelle goes to the 2006 Olympics, the
solution is quite simple. Don't watch.
cheers,
Laura
opinion here? Everyone has been writing Michelle off for so long, and she
keeps winning. "She hasn't been improving?" Really? Does everyone else
just flat out suck then? If she hasn't been improving, the competition must
be going down the toilet because she keeps beating them. There is nothing
wrong with playing it safe. Alexei won his gold medal by playing it safe, and
there's nothing wrong with that. Evgeni won his 2001 World title by playing
it safe. That doesn't mean the programs were easy, by any stretch of the
imagination. Consistency wins medals....
Turnover every four years? Lose Evgeni, Alexei, Alexander Abt? To what?
SOI? Disney on Ice? Please God, no.....
If you don't want to see the hype if Michelle goes to the 2006 Olympics, the
solution is quite simple. Don't watch.
cheers,
Laura
I love this! How true. I also can not believe that anyone could think Michelle isn't improving. If you define "improving" as doing multiple 3/3s, then I guess she hasn't improved.Mathman said:
I guess there must not be more to skating than 3/3s. Her improvement just in the past year on spins, jump technique, and footwork were enough to convince me (as if I needed any convincing) that she still has the drive and the goods to keep going.
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Ever is a long time, but in figure skating it is a relatively short time - I think once Michelle grabs her golden ring at the Olympics, turning pro will be her next logical step. Unless she has discovered the "fountain of youth" she will have to consider it one of these days. All skaters do, unfortunately.
