Tomas & Caro | Golden Skate

Tomas & Caro

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I am so much thrilled and excited about how they may do here given their tendency to bomb!

Tomas has gotten higher levels and landed more jumps at the most recent event.

Caro has also gotten higher levels and landed more jumps at the last event. Besides Caro returned to the previous LP which would hopefully help her consistency.

On the other hand, they attend more comps than other elite skaters. Caro is also going to be busy with ice shows this winter. So I am not sure if they can fully focus.
 
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antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I am so much thrilled and excited about how they may do here given their tendency to bomb!

Tomas has gotten higher levels and landed more jumps at the most recent event.

Caro has also gotten higher levels and landed more jumps at the last event. Besides Caro returned to the previous LP which would hopefully help her consistency.

On the other hand, they attend more comps than other elite skaters. Caro is also going to be busy with ice shows this winter. So I am not sure if they can fully focus.

To be honest i think it's in doing all the shows that Tomas has really learnt to play to an audience and find his feet artisitcally. I really love the way he dances to his music when he's on. I've only just caught up to watching Cup of Russia and while Tomas didn't really skate his best in the LP you could really see some sections where he really danced to every part of the music.

Interestingly I thought COR men's event was one of the most entertaining events. The two Americans (but especially Abbott) really skate to their music, ever nuance of the music highlighted by a transition or an arm movement.

In stark contrast I thought Joubert's LP was extremely boring and lacking anything other than cross overs and jumps. It was never more glaring than than in a field with that many musical skaters. There wasn't really anything in the program which was further exascerabted by having half of his jumping passes being axels.

Poor Kevind VDP also seems a lost cause in terms on presentation. I have never seen a more wooden skater attempt to pull off "choreography". I'm not sure his safri duo music really helps him either since it is more likely to alienate judges and audiences (not me i love it!). Is Joubert skating to Safri Duo in his SP? The music sounds very similar. I think Keven really aspires to try to skate more like Joubert (which would be a huge improvement).

I do understand that there are very different styles in the men's event and while i do think Joubert pulls it off more in his SP, the lack of choreography and transitions in the LP really left me cold.

Sorry i hijacked your thread and went off onto COR men's!

To conclude and bring it back on topic. I have a feeling (i don't know why) that Tomas may self destruct in one or both programs and put himself out of contention.

Carolina on the other hand tends to build and build throughout the season. While she's not my cup of tea at all, she is in much better shape so far in the season so i expect her to carry on getting stronger.

Ant
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Thank you Ant for your response. I enjoyed reading it, as always.
I agree that Tomas is very musical. Even when he messes up with jumps, he still dances and entertains the audience. That's really cool.

I also have a feeling that he may miss some jumps in LP. Tomas does not seem to be very good at LP. Perhaps it is so long that it may be difficult to maintain the focus??? His programs are so complicated and he dances so enthusiastically that I imagine it may be mentally and physically consuming and demanding to skate for more than 4 minutes.

I also feel unsure about his SP because he has attemped to have a quad combo this season. Tomas's quad has seemed relatively consistent among all men. But it would feel like a challenge to land it in SP.

I am not sure about Caro, either. She seems to have been very popular and very busy, on top of having had injuries. But I hope that she could focus and do better as you said.

It would be cool if I could see them having two clean programs someday somewhere.
 

antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
I also have a feeling that he may miss some jumps in LP. Tomas does not seem to be very good at LP. Perhaps it is so long that it may be difficult to maintain the focus??? His programs are so complicated and he dances so enthusiastically that I imagine it may be mentally and physically consuming and demanding to skate for more than 4 minutes.

I think you might be right. At COR Tomas landed a great quad, 3Lz/3T and 3A then suddenly started over-rotating his jumps and then doubled out on a lutz later on. I think it was more mental than a physical conditioning thing. I expect in terms of conditioning both he and Caro are at a distinct advantage since they train in Oberstdorf at altitude, so competing more or less anywhere else will feel easier compared to home conditions.

I also feel unsure about his SP because he has attemped to have a quad combo this season. Tomas's quad has seemed relatively consistent among all men. But it would feel like a challenge to land it in SP.

It is a tough call really - part of me thinks that since he does have a fair degree of success with the quad, it's worth putting it in, because so few men are trying the quad in the SP that if he lands it, it would really be an advantage for him. Another question i have is why the men don't try a solo quad toe and intend to do, for example, a 3Lz/3T combo. That way if they fall on the quad or have some issue that impedes the combination, they're ready to do the combo on another jump.

Ant
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
It is a tough call really - part of me thinks that since he does have a fair degree of success with the quad, it's worth putting it in, because so few men are trying the quad in the SP that if he lands it, it would really be an advantage for him. Another question i have is why the men don't try a solo quad toe and intend to do, for example, a 3Lz/3T combo. That way if they fall on the quad or have some issue that impedes the combination, they're ready to do the combo on another jump.
Well, Verner needs the Quad more than others because of his endangered (F)lip. He usually gets edge-called on his Flip, at COR only edge-warned though. If he landed the Quad he would eliminate the danger of getting edge-called and therefore gain even more points. I would like to see Johnny doing the same, the edge-call on his Flip in his short could become costly at some time.

Why don't they do a solo Quad? I doubt that any skater would be able to do enouigh different steps before the Quad - and therefore it would be punished with a deduction.
 

berrycute

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Is it true that Tom and Caro are a couple, too? Would that make them the first couple do compete in men's and ladies' events at the GPF in the same year?
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
I think you might be right. At COR Tomas landed a great quad, 3Lz/3T and 3A then suddenly started over-rotating his jumps and then doubled out on a lutz later on. I think it was more mental than a physical conditioning thing. I expect in terms of conditioning both he and Caro are at a distinct advantage since they train in Oberstdorf at altitude, so competing more or less anywhere else will feel easier compared to home conditions.

Wow that is very cool! They should compete as a marathon runner, too, then!

It is a tough call really - part of me thinks that since he does have a fair degree of success with the quad, it's worth putting it in, because so few men are trying the quad in the SP that if he lands it, it would really be an advantage for him.

So true. Also he can avoid the flip on which he sometimes gets an "e" or "!".

Another question i have is why the men don't try a solo quad toe and intend to do, for example, a 3Lz/3T combo. That way if they fall on the quad or have some issue that impedes the combination, they're ready to do the combo on another jump.

Ant

I do not know, either.

Could it be something to do with the rules, I wonder?

At CoC, Tomas did 2T, 3A, and 3Z-2T in SP and the combo was not counted as an element because he violated the SP rule prohibiting from repeating the same jump except for the ones within the combination jump (e.g., 3T-3T). So I am wondering if you do a solo 4T and 3Z-3T, then the second Toe Loop might be kicked out. But I do not know if it could be okay when the numbers of revolution are different like that (???). Sorry, I am not knowledgeble about rules at all and this is just my naive thought.

Is it true that Tom and Caro are a couple, too?

Are they?
 
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antmanb

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Well, Verner needs the Quad more than others because of his endangered (F)lip. He usually gets edge-called on his Flip, at COR only edge-warned though. If he landed the Quad he would eliminate the danger of getting edge-called and therefore gain even more points. I would like to see Johnny doing the same, the edge-call on his Flip in his short could become costly at some time.

I hadn't thought about the advantage of losing the reduction on (f)lip but it makes even more sense, i think, for Tomas to try the quad in the SP. Not so sure it is a gamble that would pay off for Johnny - he has not had anywhere near the same level of success with his quad in competition and that's in the LP let alone with the pressure of an SP. Has Johnny had a competition quad ratified yet?

Why don't they do a solo Quad? I doubt that any skater would be able to do enouigh different steps before the Quad - and therefore it would be punished with a deduction.

I suppose that is the right answer - the steps leading into the jump, however, a number of skaters - notably the ladies doing a solo flip don't really have many steps (if any) leading into their jumps. I suppose the lutz lends itself more to steps leading into it.

I do not know, either.

Could it be something to do with the rules, I wonder?

At CoC, Tomas did 2T, 3A, and 3Z-2T in SP and the combo was not counted as an element because he violated the SP rule prohibiting from repeating the same jump except for the ones within the combination jump (e.g., 3T-3T). So I am wondering if you do a solo 4T and 3Z-3T, then the second Toe Loop might be kicked out. But I do not know if it could be okay when the numbers of revolution are different like that (???). Sorry, I am not knowledgeble about rules at all and this is just my naive thought.

I'm just guessing but i don't think the short program reptition rules would apply to double jumps so i don't think the problem is for repeating the 2T and more about the fact that the required jump in the SP for the men is a triple or quadruple jump preceded by steps. Did the jump actually not count at all (usually marked with a * on the protocol) because normally doubleing out would simply mean you recieve -3GOE across the board and take the reduction on the already lowered base value of the double toe - possibly leaving him with next to no points. I'll check the protocols now.

EDIT: Oh my god i've just checked the protocols and i think You're absolutely right Bennett - the 2T was scored as i said above, namely -3GOE across the board and then the entire 3Lz+2T was not scored and designated an invalid element with a *. That must be for repeating the solo jump in the combination! That is the most stupid rule imaginable. It should be re-written to clarify it is for jumps of three or more rotations.

In this stupid age of COP where skaters realise the point benefit of adding the combo to the second jump if you miss the first jump in the intended combo, this need to be rectified.

Ant
 
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Meli_Huber

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 25, 2008
Is it true that Tom and Caro are a couple, too?

No, it isn´t. They are only good friends, not more.

We have the same disussion, in a German forum, some time ago. :laugh:

A insider from Oberstdorf told us, that they only good friends, but thats all. :biggrin:
 

eleonora.d

On the Ice
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Is it true that Tom and Caro are a couple, too? Would that make them the first couple do compete in men's and ladies' events at the GPF in the same year?

No, this isn't true. Carolina is in a relationship with the italian olympic gold medalist in the 50km walk in Beijing, Alex Schwazer. He is from South Tirol too.

http://www.nonmidire.it/foto/carolina-kostner-e-alex-schwazer-insieme/2/
http://www.stpauls.it/fc/0844fc/0844fc56.htm

They told the press after his olympic gold because he was kissing a bracelet with the name of Caro on it.
http://kpm.data.kataweb.it/kpm2x/field/image/kpmimage/3274255

and I had the impression Tomas was dating another blondie last year but I'm not sure:chorus:
 
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ae9177

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
A insider from Oberstdorf told us, that they only good friends, but thats all. :biggrin:

What a pity! They can make a perfect couple together! :love:

Tomas is such a unique skater, he always makes me feel happy while watching him. Technique and and presentation wise, he has EVERYTHING that can make him a world champion, and I love his programs.

But... he hasn't been able to put everything together in one competition yet. Will he ever be able to deliver both programs perfectly at the big events? I hope so, and I'm still waiting patiently for that special moment. :bow:
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
What a pity! They can make a perfect couple together! :love:

Tomas is such a unique skater, he always makes me feel happy while watching him. Technique and and presentation wise, he has EVERYTHING that can make him a world champion, and I love his programs.

But... he hasn't been able to put everything together in one competition yet. Will he ever be able to deliver both programs perfectly at the big events? I hope so, and I'm still waiting patiently for that special moment. :bow:

I agree with everything that you said here, esp. with the quote, "he has EVERYTHING that can make him a world champion, and I love his programs." I also dream of his OGM:love: That said, there is a big "if" attached to this statement though. I am hoping that there will be some magical moment when he somehow will transform into a consistent skater. Takahashi made this transition so it would not be impossible for some.:cool:
I somehow would not expect this transformation to happen so soon at GPF after seeing what happened at CoR, but am hoping (wishing) that the time will come around the Worlds or the Olympics.
 

francy_a

Spectator
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Is it true that Tom and Caro are a couple, too? Would that make them the first couple do compete in men's and ladies' events at the GPF in the same year?


no, it's not true. Caro is in a relationship with olympic champion Alex Schwazer (50 km race walk). they're very nice :love:
 

berrycute

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 14, 2008
Well I think they flirt a fair bit for a non-couple! I remember watching her running through her "You are the Woman" routine with him on the sideline and it was all very flirty-flirty!

Anyway, enough of my shameless gossiping!
 

MissIzzy

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Of course Tomas flirted with Brian too, at Worlds, and got Brian to flirt back. I think Tomas is just an irresistible flirt.:biggrin:
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Well I think they flirt a fair bit for a non-couple! I remember watching her running through her "You are the Woman" routine with him on the sideline and it was all very flirty-flirty!

A great showman gotta be flirty! Besides, flirty friendship is a lot of fun;)
 

Bennett

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
As I rewatched Tomas's last season's LP, I thought it understandable that it was difficult for him to refocus when he bombed.

His program had a couple of difficult jumps first followed by a spin. After that, he spent a fair amount of time doing steps and dancing in the middle (which was of course effective, presentative-wise). Then he had five jumps that came one after another with very little in betweens. In the packed jumping pass, it would be very difficult to refocus if you fail in one.

Likewise, I once saw Dai falling apart with his 5 jumps packed in the latter half. But Tomas's five jumps were even more packed than his.

I wonder what it's like in his current LP. I saw his current LP in previous comps, but have no access to it right now (Youtube is so deligently cleaned up).
 
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ae9177

On the Ice
Joined
Oct 28, 2006
^^ I agree, both his 'crouching tiger hidden dragon' and 'tango' are extremely physical demanding, not only because the jumps are heavily loaded in the 2nd half, but also because of the complex transitions and difficult choreography, stamina might be a major cause of his inconsistency.

On a side note, according to Czech Sport, Tomas withdrew from Czech Nationals due to illness.:cry: Hope he'll get better this week and be able to compete at GPF, he's the most entertaining guy to watch nowadays. :love:
 
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