Senior Free Dance Saturday, split.
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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- Jul 11, 2003
As predicted, the results never varied from day 1. There is a mindset about Dance that can not be broken. The judges only judge the errors for losing their place in the scheme of things.
Charlie for me even with that lyric melody from Samson he just was as rambunctious as if he were doing the Polyvetsian dances.
Samuelson and Bates were just off and looked lack luster that night.
Navarrow and Bommentre were delightful.
Question : Who goes to LA if B/A is interested?
Charlie for me even with that lyric melody from Samson he just was as rambunctious as if he were doing the Polyvetsian dances.
Samuelson and Bates were just off and looked lack luster that night.
Navarrow and Bommentre were delightful.
Question : Who goes to LA if B/A is interested?
I can't imagine the US federation not sending B&A if they're healthy, especially with Olympic spots in mind. So it should be them, D&W, and S&B.
D&W - Sometimes how they get from A to B annoys me, but A and B were so spectacular tonight that I kind overlooked my nitpicks.
S&B - Yes the music sucks, but the skating was solid. I think their technical foundation is even more solid than D&W, they just need more mileage and better programs.
N&B - Every time I see them I wonder what happened to the team that stole the show at 2006 Nationals. I don't think they could have skated the program much better, but to me nothing they did really rose above being just "solid". I think the choreography was supposed to come of as edgy and cool but to me came off as generic and expected. They probably need a technical and artistic overhaul if they want to make the Olympics next year.
Once again the Hubbels were technically solid but I wasn't wild about their style or program. I wish I had gotten to see Matthews and Gislason's FD instead.
I wonder if Wester and Baratsav were injured or they just decided to throw in the towel. I went back and looked at their OD and the team right behind them, Kriengkrairut&Giulietti-Schmitt, and it was clear that the judges were seriously undermarking W&B. It was painfully obvious that K&G-S were not in the same league as W&B but the components were not reflective of that.
Seriously, it shouldn't have been close, especially on skating skills. I don't usually cry foul, but this just screamed of the judges retiring a team by marks.
D&W - Sometimes how they get from A to B annoys me, but A and B were so spectacular tonight that I kind overlooked my nitpicks.
S&B - Yes the music sucks, but the skating was solid. I think their technical foundation is even more solid than D&W, they just need more mileage and better programs.
N&B - Every time I see them I wonder what happened to the team that stole the show at 2006 Nationals. I don't think they could have skated the program much better, but to me nothing they did really rose above being just "solid". I think the choreography was supposed to come of as edgy and cool but to me came off as generic and expected. They probably need a technical and artistic overhaul if they want to make the Olympics next year.
Once again the Hubbels were technically solid but I wasn't wild about their style or program. I wish I had gotten to see Matthews and Gislason's FD instead.
I wonder if Wester and Baratsav were injured or they just decided to throw in the towel. I went back and looked at their OD and the team right behind them, Kriengkrairut&Giulietti-Schmitt, and it was clear that the judges were seriously undermarking W&B. It was painfully obvious that K&G-S were not in the same league as W&B but the components were not reflective of that.
Seriously, it shouldn't have been close, especially on skating skills. I don't usually cry foul, but this just screamed of the judges retiring a team by marks.
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The question is not who they will send to worlds, it's, "Will B&A go to 4CC's or not ?" Linichuk is supposed to have told NBC that B&A are back on the ice. I don't see how B&A can be ready for 4CC's, but they may think they need to.
Otherwise, I expect the Hubbell's & C&Z at Jr. Worlds. The third position there should go to Shibutani's.
B&A and S&B are definitely going to 4CC's. If B&A aren't ready, I expect N&B to go, according to the usual order of things.
Joe, What did you think of M&G's FD? They were 3rd in the OD? Was the FD good as well? They didn't show it on either IN or NBC. That was a change from day1 when they were 6th.
Frankly, whether you like D&W or not, they are much faster than S&B, so there is no excuse necessary to keep S&B behind D&W, that's where S&B belong at this time.
If you're complaining about the position of the Hubbell's, they are still juniors. The US never puts the Jr team in dance on the podium at US nationals. That certainly has never changed. I must say, I like the senior version of the Hubbell FD much better than the Jr version, or else they skated it much better than at the JGPF. OTOH, I do not like their OD at all. I do wish that they would have someone other than their coach choreograph for them, because they appear to get S&B's old programs. That would mean that next year they would be skating to something from the same CD as Amazonic, which is about as foul a piece for an FD as I have ever heard, unsubtle and repetitive.
Otherwise, I expect the Hubbell's & C&Z at Jr. Worlds. The third position there should go to Shibutani's.
B&A and S&B are definitely going to 4CC's. If B&A aren't ready, I expect N&B to go, according to the usual order of things.
Joe, What did you think of M&G's FD? They were 3rd in the OD? Was the FD good as well? They didn't show it on either IN or NBC. That was a change from day1 when they were 6th.
Frankly, whether you like D&W or not, they are much faster than S&B, so there is no excuse necessary to keep S&B behind D&W, that's where S&B belong at this time.
If you're complaining about the position of the Hubbell's, they are still juniors. The US never puts the Jr team in dance on the podium at US nationals. That certainly has never changed. I must say, I like the senior version of the Hubbell FD much better than the Jr version, or else they skated it much better than at the JGPF. OTOH, I do not like their OD at all. I do wish that they would have someone other than their coach choreograph for them, because they appear to get S&B's old programs. That would mean that next year they would be skating to something from the same CD as Amazonic, which is about as foul a piece for an FD as I have ever heard, unsubtle and repetitive.
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- Jul 11, 2003
The Hubbells, in my opinion, were having their first Senior competition, and for that they did remarkably well. I think they will find their position with the USFS after the Olys. They are too good to ignore.
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Oops, I forgot about my impressions of M/G. She was looking a bit gaunt to me. More important, she and Gislasson work very well together. She actually looks at him whenever necessary and when it is not she is giving her all to the audience. They are very good dancers but not yet up to the top 5 or 6 US dancers.
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doris, did you mean to say D/W and S/B? Cause I'm thinking D/W are definitely going. B/A need to go if they are able. I would think everyone wants the chance to compete on the Olympic ice venue.DORISPULASKI said:
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Money must be tight in Ann Arbor; seems like the coaches only own one CD!
That is incorrect. M /G did progress, they were only 6th in the CD.
She might have meant that the top team (especially Igor's teams) sometimes skips 4CC to get ready for worlds.
I am hoping to see D/W in Vancouver, because I will attend...I am hoping US brings team A, if not, I am going to be really upset
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- Jan 23, 2008
Well to be fair, from what I know, Sognami is from the musical artist's latest CD!
But if the Hubbells get something that sounds like Amazonic next year...But I agree with the thought that the Hubbells should get outside choreography. Their FD is way too similar to what Samuelson/Bates had last season, and both teams are reusing some lifts.
Now, Igor Sphilband gets criticized for not being very original (and I've been one who has criticized him), but I think the top two teams from Canton this season (D/W and V/M) have two remarkably different FDs. I do wish that both teams didn't have a Charleston for the OD, but I really appreciate how different the FDs are from each other.
That said, I think Davis/White should seek outside choreography, specifically Tom Dickson. I think Igor and Marina have done an excellent job getting them to where they are, but they are coaches first and foremost IMO. I'd like to see Davis/White with programs from a choreographer (Virtue/Moir too for that matter) to help further develop their style and put them on a different level.
Actually, Zoueva is as much a choreographer as a coach. She has done the programs for several freestyle skaters and pairs teams -- it's not like she only choreographs for their dancers.
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Oh I know that- the programs she makes for Castile/Okolski (and Yukari Nakano!) are beautiful. And I do love the dances she's created for D/W and V/M, I think they have wonderful material this season. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'd really just like to see what their top two teams can do with outside work (or at least collaboration).
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I wonder how much of D/W, V/M, or B/A's choreography was done by Marina in the past and how much of it was done by Igor.
Because this year it seems that she's getting sole credit for both V/M's FD and D/W's OD and FD. She's done an incredible job- as others have noted both FDs are incredibly different but very detailed and have interesting shapes and movements that work with the music selection. It seemed to me that when B/A were still with Igor and Marina that Igor was their main choreographer and while their programs that have his name associated to them such as the Chopin FD and the Amelie FD are good they don't have the same detail and visual panache that Marina's programs seem to have.
It would be really interesting to know who choreographs what in that camp.
Because this year it seems that she's getting sole credit for both V/M's FD and D/W's OD and FD. She's done an incredible job- as others have noted both FDs are incredibly different but very detailed and have interesting shapes and movements that work with the music selection. It seemed to me that when B/A were still with Igor and Marina that Igor was their main choreographer and while their programs that have his name associated to them such as the Chopin FD and the Amelie FD are good they don't have the same detail and visual panache that Marina's programs seem to have.
It would be really interesting to know who choreographs what in that camp.
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As to who's going to 4CC's, the US gets 3 slots. If B&A don't go, I'm expecting D&W, S&B, and N&B. At worlds, we also have 3 slots, but I'm expecting B&A to go along with D&W and S&B.
FD Protocols are up. Very interesting. If you were looking for someone to have perhaps to be unfairly scored, the best candidates are N&B (who perhaps should have been over S&B) . N&B's technical score was better than S&B, and frankly, it could have been quite a bit higher. There PCS score should definitely have been better. My assumption seeing the dances was N&B were better, but perhaps were doing easier stuff, but I would have been wrong.
I'm guessing Pratt & Obzansky should have been a place or two higher, from the TES, but I haven't seen the dance and can't say yet.
Here's the protocols (found under the NEWS tab on IN):
http://www.icenetwork.com/documents/2009/01/25/60233/1/09Nationa_ChampionshipDance_FD_Scores.pdf
D&W had the highest base score: 40.8. The twizzles were level 2 (Meryl put a foot down) and the midline was level 3 (midline steps have been getting 3's for everyone). Everything else was level 4.
N&B had the second highest base score. Evidently the work they did to raise the levels in their FD vs. what they had on the GP circuit worked. 40.5
The only elements not level 4 were the midline, the spin, and the circular step, which were all level 3.
Pratt and Obzansky had 40.2. Circular and Diagonal steps were level 3. The rotational lift was level 2.
M&G had 40.0 base points. They had a level 2 twizzle, diagonal step 3 and circular step 3.
The Hubbells had 39.7 (Their last rotational lift was level 1. The circular and midline steps were level 3)
S&B had 39.5 (Not only was the failed spin level 1, the midline and the circular steps were level 3)
FD Protocols are up. Very interesting. If you were looking for someone to have perhaps to be unfairly scored, the best candidates are N&B (who perhaps should have been over S&B) . N&B's technical score was better than S&B, and frankly, it could have been quite a bit higher. There PCS score should definitely have been better. My assumption seeing the dances was N&B were better, but perhaps were doing easier stuff, but I would have been wrong.
I'm guessing Pratt & Obzansky should have been a place or two higher, from the TES, but I haven't seen the dance and can't say yet.
Here's the protocols (found under the NEWS tab on IN):
http://www.icenetwork.com/documents/2009/01/25/60233/1/09Nationa_ChampionshipDance_FD_Scores.pdf
D&W had the highest base score: 40.8. The twizzles were level 2 (Meryl put a foot down) and the midline was level 3 (midline steps have been getting 3's for everyone). Everything else was level 4.
N&B had the second highest base score. Evidently the work they did to raise the levels in their FD vs. what they had on the GP circuit worked. 40.5
The only elements not level 4 were the midline, the spin, and the circular step, which were all level 3.
Pratt and Obzansky had 40.2. Circular and Diagonal steps were level 3. The rotational lift was level 2.
M&G had 40.0 base points. They had a level 2 twizzle, diagonal step 3 and circular step 3.
The Hubbells had 39.7 (Their last rotational lift was level 1. The circular and midline steps were level 3)
S&B had 39.5 (Not only was the failed spin level 1, the midline and the circular steps were level 3)
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- Jan 23, 2008
Tanith was just interviewed. Belbin/Agosto have been named to the World team.
Oh I'm so glad to hear that! We definitely need them in LA.
Hope recovery continues to go well for Ben!
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Didn't V&M claim credit for collaborating extensively with Marina and Igor on a lot of their own choreography?
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