What happened to Johnny Weir?

Winnipeg said:

why did the USFSA give Belbin/Agosto a bye though and not Weir??

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Because they didn't even compete. They said from the beginning that they are still struggling with injuries - and then asked politely for a bye to Worlds.

Could Weir have done the same? I don't know, a month-old stomach flu - that was cured fast enough to allow him to fly back home quickly - doesn't seem to be such a great reason. Of course you lose some weight, but perhaps you need to make sure that a weight loss is compensated in 2 weeks time, and doesn't throw you off-balance for over a month (read: live a bit healthier to begin with)!

Trankov got this flu/poisoning thing at the GPF, was really off at Russian Nationals, he lost 6kg because of the flu ("I've lost 6 kilograms since the Grand Prix Final in Korea," explained Trankov. "It's a funny feeling. I never felt so light. Everything is so easy now. I am just not accustomed to it.") - but at Europeans he was back to form, landing every jump. But of course Trankov looks as if his eating habits are relatively normal to begin with.

Weir went to Nationals. He obviously thought that he was competitive enough. He said before Nationals that he wasn't at his very best - but that it wasn't bad either. He skated, he messed up, he didn't medal and consequently lost his spot on the World Team. And that's it. It's no different in real life. You can't say "I was ill" after you failed an exam and expect to be given another chance / more chances than the others.

I always loved Johnny's skating and his brash interviews; but honestly, he should have accepted the result and never have said anything - it seems very egoistic and unsportsmanlike. He basically said that one of the three podium skaters should be left of the team, because he, what, had a bad day? That's not their fault. It's certainly not Mroz fault and he should get what he earned in a glorious manner: a spot on the team. Same goes for Lysacek. I was amazed how he pulled off those clean Triples in his program towards the end, after that really shaky start - at the end he still managed to do an 8 Triples performance.

Great post, Medusa! Johnny does seem to have rather unhealthy eating habits, which might have exacerbated the effects of the flu.

The three podium finishers earned their spots. Rules differ by country; Russia only guarantees the spot for the Nationals winner, with all the rest being up to the federation. American system is different. And, BTW, Tanith and Ben will still have to prove to the federation that they are back up to form.

Raatkirani said:

Evan hasn't medaled in the worlds since 2006. He didn't qualify for the GPF and he placed 3rd in the nationals and is currently ranked 6th in the world by the ISU.

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wow, for sucking it up so badly he certainly isn't *that* far down in the standing. And considering he DIDN'T go to worlds last year and he's still only two spots below Weir? Doesn't really suggest his being named to the world team is a fluke. please!

Eevun said:

I don't think that's fair to either of the skaters. They need time to prepare.

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It doesn't affect their ability to prepare at all. They should absolutely be preparing as if they are going to Worlds. One of them just might not go.

LilyOfTheValley said:

Where did Johnny say this?

I read elsewhere that he showed good sportmanship.

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Of course he didn't say "Kick Mroz out, I want in". But he said that he hopes that he can still go to Worlds and asked the association to consider all the results this season and the one before. Which is basically asking them to kick one of the podium skaters out.

icenetwork said:

"You should fight for your place on the world team," he said. "At the same time, I'm the only American man to win three medals on the Grand Prix this season; I'm ranked fourth in the world. I hope the [selection] committee understands my circumstances coming into this championship."

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Medusa said:

but honestly, he should have accepted the result and never have said anything - it seems very egoistic and unsportsmanlike. He basically said that one of the three podium skaters should be left of the team, because he, what, had a bad day?

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What he said was that he hopes the USFSA consider his track record before deciding solely on his performances in this one competition. That was right after his skate, before the last group had even skated, am I right? Before any final medal positions were even known? He made his case and his case only, did not mention any names and no results were even in at that point. And then said he wasn't too optimistic about it. And that's it. I thought there was nothing unsportsmanlike in his behaviour or his words, in fact I'm impressed by how composed/strong he came off. As opposed to 'pleading' or whatever nonsense the press has printed so far, for example. Now that I've finally seen the interview, I actually almost snorted out loud because everybody's been making it out to seem like he got on his hands and knees and begged or something. *holds back an eyeroll, but only just barely*

herios said:

Abbott is not a youngster, he is 23 same as Evan. He cannot wait and the way he's been prepared this year shows that he's a focused athlete, unlike Johhny. He is setting himself up well for his second Worlds and if he would medal, that would be a perfect set up for his Olympic quest. And because historically, when US hosted the Worlds, usually one man medals (hint, hint) I have some very good feelings for him. As far as Johnny, I would not bet right now on him, anyting.

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Wow, I thought Abbott was a lot younger. He seems really young, fresh and hungry. Evan & Johnny look old, tired and warn out. I guess thats the life of a seasoned skater. They need to take some time off.

It's a little late for them to take a break... Evan's considering this season as part of the Olympic season (which could explain why his programs still seem so rough, maybe they'll be his oly programs? it's been a while since he's repeated programs lol) and for now Johnny does get a break... we'll see.

Winnipeg said:

why did the USFSA give Belbin/Agosto a bye though and not Weir??

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Because Belbin&Agosto followed the procedure - they withdrew from nationals because of injury and petitioned for a bye to worlds.

Johnny chose to skate and therefore laid himself open to USFSA selection based on that performance. He was stupid not to withdraw and ask for a bye which IMO he would certainly have been given.

Ant

Raatkirani said:

Evan hasn't medaled in the worlds since 2006. He didn't qualify for the GPF and he placed 3rd in the nationals and is currently ranked 6th in the world by the ISU. Johnny medaled last year, placed 3rd in the GPF and is currently ranked 4th in the world by the ISU. Based on consistency and results from the past year, Weir should have been named to the team. He earned that spot for the country and for himself. That B&A were named to the team despite a nagging injury and not Weir is positively hypocritical.

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How is it hypocritical??? B&A did not take part in the competition that is used to base decisions for world selection. Johnny did. There is a world of difference saying to your federation - i was sick/injured so could not take part in the relevant competition but i will be better by worlds, please consider my perofrmance this season and my past results and consider me for the world team; and competing int he relevant competition, skating badly then saying - i didn't have the training time because I was sick for a couple of weeks, please ignore my poor skate look at the rest of my season and historical result and send me instead of one of the guys in 1-3.

Raatkirani said:

Edit: Another inconsistency---check out the official announcement from the USFSA. Stephen Carriere was named as 3rd alternate after Bradley. He placed 9th at the nationals this year . They bumped three other skaters (Oi, Rippon, Pennington) solely because of Carriere's past results. The reasoning behind Carriere's selection for some strange reason was not used for Johnny Weir.

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Why is that inconsistent - Johnny is first alternate over Bradley for worlds?

Ant

I have loved Johnny's skating for so long and wanted to see him pull out all the stops at Nationals, but this year just wasn't his year. Maybe it is good for him to sit out of this worlds, rest & get healthy, and then make a run for it when it really counts: the Olympic year next year, 2010!!!

He admitted himself that it was maybe, what, 4 weeks ago that he had to get an IV put in his arm for some strange viral illness?? 8 lbs lost on his tiny frame?? That's a lot....and can really sap your energy if you are training on the Senior level. Even as an adult skater, if I am 5 lbs underweight, I can feel the difference when I am training a competitive program, and I am not even training to johnny's level (!).

Johnny is a beautiful skater. I have seen so many people on some online skating boards talk badly about USFSA & how they should permit him to go to Worlds on a bye. Personally, unless we actually work at USFSA headquarters or were on the judging panel at Nationals, we don't know the complete story (we only know the "publicity" that is shown on TV). Let's let the USFSA & judges do their job and not bash them based on hearsay or what we "think" the truth is. :agree:

antmanb said:

Because Belbin&Agosto followed the procedure - they withdrew from nationals because of injury and petitioned for a bye to worlds.

Johnny chose to skate and therefore laid himself open to USFSA selection based on that performance. He was stupid not to withdraw and ask for a bye which IMO he would certainly have been given.

Ant

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So in a nutshell, the lesson learned is: If you're feeling like crap, just don't compete. Skip the competition and ask the USFSA to waiver you in, which they will. If you dare compete and falter, you're toast, regardless of how great you've been up until that day. I still disagree with this mentality, but what do I know? I'm just a figure skating fan. I like the Russian and Japanese system better of looking at the whole season to determine world team delegates.

Raatkirani said:

I like the Russian and Japanese system better of looking at the whole season to determine world team delegates.

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But IMHO there is a problem with that, roo. That leaves the selection process untirely up to yhe whim of Piseev and his cronies, with everything going on behind closed doors.

The U.S. system does have the advantage that everyone knows and plays by the same rules. A coach can't get a plum for his skater by slipping someone a bottle of vodka.

A little off topic, but speaking of Russia, Alexei Yagudin never won the Russian championship. But he won four world championships and an Olympic gold medal. I think that shows the relative importanbce of the national championship competition in Russia (none) compared to the U.S. (everything).

Raatkirani said:

I like the Russian and Japanese system better of looking at the whole season to determine world team delegates.

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The Japanese Federation assigns the World spots based on their Nationals result. I don't think they even have "byes". (The JSF pressured Nobunari for a month to compete at Nationals last season, because if he wasn't at Nationals they couldn't send him to Worlds, and they were afraid that they'll lose one spot without him. Same problem with Daisuke this season - the question was whether he'll be ready for Nationals, because no Nationals - no Worlds.) Miki got injured at the recent Nationals and skated in pain (and couldn't even jump in the Gala), but she refused to withdraw as she wanted to go to Worlds.

They used to take the last 2 seasons into consideration - right until it blew in their face when they sent Miki to Olympics. According to the selection criteria that they established - the number of "points" that skaters collected for good placements - Miki was the one who deserved a place on the team. She placed a respectable 5th at last Worlds, she had a good start of the season, and made the GPF over the likes of Shizuka or Fumie. Of course, her condition kept dropping and she had a very bad showing at Nationals, but there had been hope that she'll pull herself together and skate up to her potential at Olympics.

Of course, that didn't happen and the media nearly have eaten Miki and the JSF alive. Since then the rules have been changed and the Worlds Team is named immediately after Nationals based on the Nationals result.

I think it worked very well so far. Had the old rules were in place, Yukari wouldn't have been on the 2007 Worlds team. Fumie would take her spot based on her Worlds 2006 silver and making the GPF.- which probably wouldn't work very well considering that Fumie's condition started dropping after the GPF and she started struggling with injuries.

The current Worlds team would probably have looked different as well - this time with Yukari bumping Fumie off the team. I love Yukari, and I know many people here would have liked her to go to Worlds instead of either Fumie or Miki, but she seems to be struggling with some physical problems. She lost to Fumie twice this season and twice to Akiko, and she lost the LP to Miki at GPF. At Nationals she said she could not feel her legs and landed her jumps nearly forward. And in the post-Nationals shows she struggled a bit as well, falling during the footwork sequence and attempting only the easiest triples.

Sorry for such a long post. I just wanted to shortly exemplify why sending the skaters based on past results is not always a good idea... and it turned into this.

Anyway, I think its wise to recognize when the skater's condition begins to drop. What's more, the judges don't seem to be enamored with Johnny's programs this season. Even with quite decent skates he got the lowest PCS at GPF (and that without Brian and Nobunari competing there). I think it's wiser for Johnny to go home, rest, regroup and think of a new strategy for the Olympic season.

Raatkirani said:

So in a nutshell, the lesson learned is: If you're feeling like crap, just don't compete. Skip the competition and ask the USFSA to waiver you in, which they will. If you dare compete and falter, you're toast, regardless of how great you've been up until that day. I still disagree with this mentality, but what do I know? I'm just a figure skating fan. I like the Russian and Japanese system better of looking at the whole season to determine world team delegates.

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Well last time i checked figure skating is a sport and nationals is a competition - so yes, if you compete and falter you are toast - that is exactly what happens!!

Should Verner have petitioned to be considered for a medal after worlds last year because, well, he skated so much better in the season leading up to it, and he really can pull off those elements in practice? I know i'm being facetious for the sake of it, but people are asking for a poor performance to be ignored. This is a sport - you can't ignore it when someone fails to deliver. To ignore the national championships ni picking the team that goes to worlds is to belittle the competition itself.

There have been far more controversial teams named under the Russian (remember reigning silver world medalist Slutskaya being denied a trip to worlds) and Japanese teams. Also the British federation has come under all manner of attack for not using the nationals as the qualifier for Europeans and worlds.

Ant

Raatkirani said:

So in a nutshell, the lesson learned is: If you're feeling like crap, just don't compete. Skip the competition and ask the USFSA to waiver you in, which they will. If you dare compete and falter, you're toast, regardless of how great you've been up until that day. I still disagree with this mentality, but what do I know? I'm just a figure skating fan. I like the Russian and Japanese system better of looking at the whole season to determine world team delegates.

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The Japanese system is Top 3 (or # of qualifiers) at Nationals. Period. They changed it after Ando bombed at the Olys and Worlds in 06. So, Nakano out, Suguri in, end of story.

dizzydi7 said:

Even though Johnny stayed focused and trained hard this year, I just can't help but think that he is a delicate soul. These side trips that he takes to foreign countries during the competitive season don't seem to help matters. Perhaps he would have been wise to skip the Korea show and thus perhaps avoid the last bug he contracted. He seems to be very affected and taken down by illnesses much more than other skaters.

Dizzy

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I agree that Johnny looks very delicate and doesn't seem like having much stamina.

Going back and forth between Asia and the US for GPs and Yuna's show would have affected him a lot. That's too much traveling.

Perhaps because I myself tend to get really really exhausted by international travels, I just couldn't believe to hear that he was going to Korea again for Yuna's show right after going back to the US from the GPF. Jet-lag between Asia and the US could be really hard and it is also a long, exhausting travel. Well, a person like the tiny iron young lady Mao Asada might be okay with it; but perhaps not a person like Johnny. Even the young Patrick was really affected by jet-lag when he first traveled to Korea for GPF.

I understand that Christmas was like a little break and Yuna and Johnny enjoy a great friendship. But it was also just a month before the Nationals. I'm really sorry that he missed the most important one, which could have been prevented with a better resting and preparation, perhaps by skipping the show and spending a good peaceful time back home.

I hope that he and his coaches would work better with his physical training, diet, and schedule next year so that it won't happen again in the most important year.

antmanb said:

This is a sport - you can't ignore it when someone fails to deliver. To ignore the national championships in picking the team that goes to worlds is to belittle the competition itself.
Ant

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I can accept that. Now did Tanith and Ben fail to deliver? Should their performance at this national championship be ignored?

no, they did not fail to deliver. They weren't there. yes - their rest of the season and past seasons were taken into consideration. Just as Johnny's would have had he done the same thing... but he took that chance.

PolymerBob said:

I can accept that. Now did Tanith and Ben fail to deliver? Should their performance at this national championship be ignored?

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No they didn't fail to deliver at nationals. They didn't go! They did the equivalent of phoning in sick to work! They were injured and told everyone, following procedure, that they would not be competing and then asked to be considered for the world team despite not being able to attend the competition. All procedures were followed and within the rules, they were named to the team.

Why are people finding it so hard to understand the difference??

EDIT - yeah what Toni said!

Anrt