BeBe

Dee4707 · Feb 6, 2009

mskater93 said:
There's probably more to the story that we don't all know that lead to the dumping of Tim. Think about it, Frank would never randomly DUMP his best student at a level unless there was something to it. Look how long he stuck with Chris Bowman!!

I understand what you are saying but from the outside looking in when Tim was winning the medals, Tim was the greatest. Tim started having problems and Tim was gone. Tim went to another coach and was still having problems and stopped skating competitively. Also, where was Frank Carroll in his career with Chris Bowman. Was he sought after??? Just my thoughts on the subject.

Tonichelle · Feb 6, 2009

mskater93 said:
There's probably more to the story that we don't all know that lead to the dumping of Tim. Think about it, Frank would never randomly DUMP his best student at a level unless there was something to it. Look how long he stuck with Chris Bowman!!

by the time Tim was dumped Evan was waiting not so paitently in the wings, yes Ken was his coach then, but Tim was out and Evan was in...

not blaming Evan, just saying I don't think Frank saw Tim as his best hope anymore... Tim with his back/boot issues was on his way down in standings...

Toni, this has always been a sore spot with me. It seemed like when Timmy had problems, he wasn't worth much to Frank anymore. I know I'm probably too sensitive over the subject but I think that's one of the big reasons I don't like Evan.

Oh, but Dee, it wasn't Evan's fault. That's a bit unfair to put on Evan. It was Frank's decision.

mskater93 · Feb 6, 2009

antmanb said:
I'm not sure it can all just be about placement of the jum though. Does she land it in practice? Whereabouts on the rink does she do it in practice?

The flip is one of those jumps that needs a very flat or shallow three turn going into it - it is easier to set up straight down the rink than anywhere else. I suppose they could try and put it heading towards one of the long sides but that usually is where the edge jumps go. It would shorten the prep time for it which might throw the timing for the jump off, or even make the three turn to swingy to get the jump.

Ant

Agreed, Ant. Usually when you watch BB on the warm up or on officials, she'll land the flip with no problems. When she sets it up in the program, for some reason, she rarely ever actually reaches the same way to pick (with the same timing you see in practice/warm up) which puts her off her axis on the landing and on her butt.

Tinymavy15 · Feb 6, 2009

mskater93 said:
Agreed, Ant. Usually when you watch BB on the warm up or on officials, she'll land the flip with no problems. When she sets it up in the program, for some reason, she rarely ever actually reaches the same way to pick (with the same timing you see in practice/warm up) which puts her off her axis on the landing and on her butt.

I train at the same rink as Bebe, and I must say with all honesty that her sucess rate with the flip and lutz is no better in practice than in competition. She would land about 25% of the ones she tried. But like in competition, when she did land them, they looked very easy and clean.

ks777 · Feb 6, 2009

Tinymavy15 said:
I train at the same rink as Bebe, and I must say with all honesty that her sucess rate with the flip and lutz is no better in practice than in competition. She would land about 25% of the ones she tried. But like in competition, when she did land them, they looked very easy and clean.

Is BeBe still training?

Dee4707 · Feb 6, 2009

Tonichelle said:
Oh, but Dee, it wasn't Evan's fault. That's a bit unfair to put on Evan. It was Frank's decision.

Oh, I agree Toni that it's not fair but my human side felt sorry for Timmy and I saw Evan put in his place...so I don't like Evan for that reason. Is it logical, probably not. So now I dislike both Evan & Frank.

Tinymavy15 · Feb 6, 2009

ks777 said:
Is BeBe still training?

I have not seen her since nationals, no.

Tonichelle · Feb 6, 2009

well, I guess that's fair, in a sense, Dee... I don't like Frank either. He always looks so angry/mean.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 6, 2009

mskater93 said:
Agreed, Ant. Usually when you watch BB on the warm up or on officials, she'll land the flip with no problems. When she sets it up in the program, for some reason, she rarely ever actually reaches the same way to pick (with the same timing you see in practice/warm up) which puts her off her axis on the landing and on her butt.

and Ant - Your suggestions may well get her that Flip which gives her no problem in the warm-up, but it does on that straight way down the centre of the ice every time. That's what I am saying, it is correctible. get it out from where it is always placed in the program. so she wont get the heebyjeebies as it comes up in the program. A new place may well take care of it.

Mathman · Feb 6, 2009

Dee4707 said:
Also, where was Frank Carroll in his career with Chris Bowman. Was he sought after?

I think he was well established as a top coach by that time. He had already coached Linda Fratianne to the Olympic silver medal and also was a coach (one of several) of Tiffany Chin.

flying camel · Feb 6, 2009

Yes, Frank does seem like a very intense coach. Be Be just looked lost at Nationals. There seems like there was a lot going on that we don't know about. Maybe Frank had moved on to Laney Diggs. Maybe that's why Khale left also.

soogar · Feb 8, 2009

Tonichelle said:
by the time Tim was dumped Evan was waiting not so paitently in the wings, yes Ken was his coach then, but Tim was out and Evan was in...

not blaming Evan, just saying I don't think Frank saw Tim as his best hope anymore... Tim with his back/boot issues was on his way down in standings...

Oh, but Dee, it wasn't Evan's fault. That's a bit unfair to put on Evan. It was Frank's decision.

I don't think it was solely due to Tim's boot/back issues... There has been a lot of speculation about Timmy's training habits and personal life on the boards. I am not repeating the personal allegations because I don't know him and have not seen it personally. However I don't believe that Frank would dump on Timmy if it were only about an injury. Frank had already built his reputation.

If you were a coach and you had two pupils, one of whom was a more serious student than the other, wouldn't you focus on the one with more drive? Wouldn't it be the fair thing to do? Also Evan is injured now and it doesn't appear that Frank is giving up on him. Heck in spite of his injuries, it seems as if Evan is working furiously to get back to form.

And I am a Timmy fan.. thought he was robbed at 2003 Worlds and it appeared to me that he was working hard up to the 2006 Olympics. Maybe he wasn't working smart.. I don't know.. or he could not physically handle the jumps anymore.

Tonichelle · Feb 8, 2009

Tim had been 'complaining' about a nagging boot and injury problem since 2002/2003... it was really hindering him if you go by what he and Frank both were saying.

Evan came in with nagging injuries and he works through it, but he's still getting decent results... Tim just tanked and never recovered scorewise. Nevermind that, AFAIK, Frank doesn't have another 'star' ready to take Evan's place even if he WERE wanting to dump him.

and I've been a supporter of Tim since 00/01 so I'm not knocking him...

dorispulaski · Feb 9, 2009

Joesitz said:
and Ant - Your suggestions may well get her that Flip which gives her no problem in the warm-up, but it does on that straight way down the centre of the ice every time. That's what I am saying, it is correctible. get it out from where it is always placed in the program. so she wont get the heebyjeebies as it comes up in the program. A new place may well take care of it.

The trouble is, it's a flip from a step sequence, so it has to be placed there, more or less. She should change out the flip for a jump she can actually complete after a step sequence.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 9, 2009

dorispulaski said:
The trouble is, it's a flip from a step sequence, so it has to be placed there, more or less. She should change out the flip for a jump she can actually complete after a step sequence.

Good point. The Flip should go elsewhere and not with a step sequence. That's for the 3T. I think because she falters on the Flip so often that she could just do a plain 3F anywhere. It's better than falling.

MFarone · Feb 22, 2009

Bebe since Nationals

Bebe has been on my mind a lot since Nationals. For the last few years I've hoped Bebe would finally break out and have 2 great programs at Nationals and make it onto the podium. This year was just a huge disappointment and step back.

Anyone know if she has resumed training? Tinymavy15 have you seen Bebe training again?

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