Article on Sasha Cohen | Page 4 | Golden Skate

Article on Sasha Cohen

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Although I think Sasha is NOT the best female skater yet I still think she will get it together. Winning Nats and Worlds won’t make her the best ever. I mean really she would have to win multiple Nat, Worlds titles and at least 2 Olympic gold medals to be considered the best EVER. I think she’s a little behind on that.
 
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Mistyeyed

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 4, 2003
I guess they are saying that with Kwan at 23-shes out of the running or something-and Sarah off to school and skating partime-she too is virtually out of the running hmm-that leaves room for Sasha. It is certainly time for Sasha to do something she has been in the running for several years now against the top ladies.

I like Sasha but I also like AP and Jenny Kirk too. I for one am hoping that they all three do very well this season but I also think it is too early to be verbally giving everything to Sasha. Lets see what happens in this season first. I also hope Angela N. does something wonderful this season but I don't put her up there with Sasha, I did before her ballerina coach died but she has not been the same since, I always hope for her though. She had just burst forth and was showing how much she could really give but since her coach died she has not been the same on the ice. What a shame. She could have been the tops. Maybe she still can prove me wrong.
 

swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Wow, must be almost skating time

I'm winded just reading all these posts. Man, I don't know how these skaters do it. Whew!:laugh:
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Rgirl, thank you for that post about energy-producing mechanisms. You should write a book. (Oh, you did.)

What an astonishing creation the human body is!

Mathman
 

skatepixie

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 2, 2003
I always read the quote "i realized i could breathe" as "Its over now...so I can relax."

I dont think the "best" is about 2 olympic golds. The skater I consider the best ever, with sasha climbing, is Peggy Fleming (1 olympic gold).
 

kemy

Rinkside
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Hmmm....

I would consider Sonja Henie or Maribel Vinson Owen as being the best...with the edge going to Maribel...many world class skaters DID come from her tutelage.

I think it's a shame that many young people don't get to witness the purity of skating back then.

How many people here have seen Sonja, or Maribel, or even Peggy skate?

Here's what Sasha said exactly:

"I did my new long program to Swan Lake, at least three-quarters of it for the first time. I found at the end of the program I could breathe!"

I could see this NOT meaning that she was out of breathe, but that she was relieved that it was done, BUT it was ONLY Sun Valley...not a competition.

Also, is Sun Valley at a higher climate? I remember when I first went to Colorado, I found it hard to breathe just WALKING.
 
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swannanoa54

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Oh my, here I go!

skatepixie said:
I always read the quote "i realized i could breathe" as "Its over now...so I can relax."

I dont think the "best" is about 2 olympic golds. The skater I consider the best ever, with sasha climbing, is Peggy Fleming (1 olympic gold).

Considering that Sasha said that after doing 3/4 of her program at Sun Valley, not in a competition, at a high elevation, she probably DID mean she could breathe. And not because her program was over, but because, to her, she found she was in much better shape than she probably anticipated especially at that elevation.

As far as the "best" goes, it has nothing to do with Olympic medals. Maybe, skatepixie, you could get some old figure skating tapes and watch the skating of Sonja Henie and Maribel Vinson Owen. Personally, I rank them the "best" of all time even though their times were different from now.

I watched Peggy Fleming win her OGM. She was truly beautiful and still is. She doesn't even have to jump. She glides across the ice. And Dorothy Hamill-yes! And Janet Lynn-who I consider ONE of the best female skaters ever and she didn't win Olympic gold herself. And yes, I put MK right in there with them along with Kat Witt and several others. But that's just me.

When Sasha gains consistency (whether she wins or not) and lives up to her OWN expectations; when she is completely happy inside with how she skates whether she wins or not; when she can stop talking about what she's PRACTICING and do what she already does so well without loss of concentration; then I will know she is ONE of the best female skaters in a long line of bests. That's not unpleasant company to be in, IMO.:)
 
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lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
skatepixie said:
I always read the quote "i realized i could breathe" as "Its over now...so I can relax."

I dont think the "best" is about 2 olympic golds. The skater I consider the best ever, with sasha climbing, is Peggy Fleming (1 olympic gold).

Of course you do.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
To me, the most remarkable women's figure skating champion was Madge Syers of Great Britain. She entered the 1902 Olympics in the men's division (there was no women's division then), and won the silver medal. Only 10 time world champion Ulrich Salchow could outskate Ms. Syers.

This would be like Michelle Kwan taking on Evgeny Plushenko today. "Want to see my quad-triple-triple combo?" says Michelle.

Except that Michelle has to compete in a heavy ankle-length skirt.

And face the disapproval of the entire sports establishment as they frantically search the rule books for a way to keep her out.

In 1903, quite predicably, they changed the rules to prohibit women from competing. It wasn't until 1906 that women were allowed to hold their own World Championships. Madge won in 1906 and 1907, and won Olympic gold in 1908.

I am reminded of this by the sad news of the death yesterday of tennis great Althea Gibson. She was the first black woman to compete at and to win Wimbledon.

Later, forbidden to earn money playing tennis in those days when amateurs were amateurs, she became a successful professional golfer.

http://www.voanews.com/article.cfm?objectID=8AFA7388-A79D-4C3E-AC3D4C5ACA9B5B66

Mathman
 
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mpal2

Final Flight
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Great reminder re: Madge Syers. I haven't seen much published about her, but from what little I've read I've been extremely impressed.

I've always wondered if she should have beaten Ulrich Salchow but politics got in the way. I can just feel the attitude emanating "We can't give a woman the gold" :eek: :sheesh: In spite of that attitude, she still managed to impress enough people to walk away with silver. Bless her forever. Where would Sonia Henie be without Madge?

I would have loved to have seen that competition.
 

BronzeisGolden

Medalist
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
This article certainly isn't for die-hard fans. It reminds me of some articles that were written in the same style about Michelle in her early years (particularly 95/96). She hadn't really proven herself then but was already being touted as one of the greatest. It's a cycle and will happen as long as America loves their ice princesses....we must have one to replace another. Michelle is aging (LOL...not in my mind, but seems to be the general concensus) and Sasha has been chosen to fill the empty slot that everyone is expecting to appear. There's nothing wrong with that. Michelle was practically given the Olympic Gold in Nagano and World titles from 96 to 2002...but it didn't happen that way. It's just fluff, we've been subjected it to it for decades, no time to get upset about it now! Sasha will either prove herself or not.
 

NorthernLite

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
I had not heard of Althea Gibson's death. :(

Going a little more OT - All this talk of early skaters reminded me of part of Sandra Loosemore's site, with a few images of old-time skaters. Sorry, no Madge. (Also, please note Sandra's warning re: not reproducing the images.)

Old Skating Photos

I'll also have to find the image I saw of Jackson Haines on inline skates for an indoor show he gave sans ice. (I had not known until I saw this photo that inline skates were not a recent invention.)

BTW, Maribel Owen wrote a fair amount about skating (I think she was the first female sportswriter for the NY Times). She wrote a few books. I've read her last, completed shortly before the plane tragedy. Aside from her intriguing comments, I was fascinated by the book's photos, illustrating skating moves. I'm not certain who all the skaters are, but if I'm remembering correctly, one was her daughter Laurence.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Don't know why people say Sasha is the greatest or ever will be. She, to me, is just the same drama over and over again. It's getting a bit boring. She skates to Rach like she does Carmen. And her hyper extension is looking scarier and scarier. Yawn.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
BronzeisGolden said:
This article certainly isn't for die-hard fans. It reminds me of some articles that were written in the same style about Michelle in her early years (particularly 95/96). She hadn't really proven herself then but was already being touted as one of the greatest. It's a cycle and will happen as long as America loves their ice princesses.... Michelle was practically given the Olympic Gold in Nagano and World titles from 96 to 2002...but it didn't happen that way. It's just fluff, we've been subjected it to it for decades, no time to get upset about it now! Sasha will either prove herself or not.
I certainly second Mathman on your great post, Bronzeisgolden. Somewhere deep in the depths of my most recent tome-post;) I say something similar (though not as well) about how since the advent of the popularity of entertainment reporting, every US ladies skater since Kristi has gotten these kinds of "may be greatest ever" articles. But I particularly like your point that while figure skating fans do not see Michelle as "aging" at 23--PUH-lease, Nancy Kerrigan was the OGM favorite in '94 at 24! And as if 23 is "getting up there" by any standard except elite women's gymnastics--the entertainment-sports media food chain wants new blood, a "fill-in" as you said. That's what I think drives this, the impetus from the culture at large for high-rate celebrity turnover. The "If you ain't new, you're old and blue" kind of thing.

Everything is just faster now, from movie editing to the way we receive and process information. IMO, the media both perpetuates this and is subject to it. The media are like, "What? Michelle has been #1 since '96? Well let's hurry and get her out of there so we can make more money off somebody else!" To me it's just money and silliness. I would hope that this year at least prior to Nationals there will be a slew of articles with headlines such as "Michelle Still the Favorite and Better than Ever." There actually was a time when the longevity of an athlete was a thing to be admired. But no matter what the media machine says, the proof will come on the ice.

Also, I think a couple of other reasons the media are trying to crown a new princess are (a) bragging rights--you just know "Time" was dancing all over the place when Sarah won the OGM after they had gone out on a limb and put her on the cover of their '02 preOlympic issue and making crank "Nyah-nyah-nyah!" calls to "Newsweek"; (b) Michelle is competing less and thus is not as much in the public eye, especially between Campbell's and Nationals; thus the media need somebody to feed on while Michelle is quietly practicing and living her life.

"It's just fluff...no time to get upset about it now" is right, BG. And double right that Sasha will either prove herself or she won't. BTW, in that list of next "best evers" were not only champions like Kristi and Michelle, but also "never quite made its" like Nicole Bobek and Tonya Harding. So I hope the skaters who are subjects of these kinds of articles keep them in perspective too.
Rgirl
 
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windspirit

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Rgirl said:
The media are like, "What? Michelle has been #1 since '96? Well let's hurry and get her out of there so we can make more money off somebody else!" To me it's just money and silliness. I would hope that this year at least prior to Nationals there will be a slew of articles with headlines such as "Michelle Still the Favorite and Better than Ever." There actually was a time when the longevity of an athlete was a thing to be admired.
Well, the ideal seems to be that everything and everyone is disposable (in most areas of life, if not all). But I don't think that media are going to forget about Michelle anytime soon. They're just shopping for a new model. What I don't like is all the hype, making a product out of someone, and treating them as such. Everything is about selling and buying something. How sad.

As for what you wrote previously -- wow! My hat's off to ya! Thanks for such an informative post. Very interesting, too. And halfway through it I've started thinking: "someone should give it to Tarasova"... :laugh: I wonder if she's ever going to work with Leonid Raitsin ("a general physical training coach", who have worked with many, many elite Russian skaters) again. He helped Tarasova prepare Kulik and Yagudin, with the best results, as we know. :D (I think he had a lot to do with Kulik's peaking at the right time; as for Yags, he doesn't take the credit for his Olympic win, since he had stopped working with him after Worlds in Vancouver, but good teaching lasts a lifetime, eh?)

I've just re-read quickly one of Raitsin's interviews (I was wondering what he thought about skating the whole programs in practice). He said that once he took a skater (didn't name him) that others had already given up on. The skater was very unreliable in competitions. The judges and coaches thought there's nothing wrong with his technique, but he didn't have a good psychological preparation. So, he worked with a psychologist for a year. That didn't help. His jumps were very inconsistent. To make the story short: they worked on his speed and strength endurance (and cut his ice training in half...). Anyway, after 6 months, the skater's jumps were 40 cm higher, and much more consistent (we're talking about triples, he didn't have a quad yet, but he was much closer to it after that). Raitsin said that it's because he was no longer using up all of his resources on one jump, but about 60% of them. In result he was able to skate a few of his programs at one practice, and, for example, when he skated his free program three times (with all the elements), from the 20 different kinds of jumps he blew only two. (It's just my attempt at summarizing one part of that long and detailed interview).

Well, I wonder what he would say about Sasha's problems, and what would happen if he worked with her for some time.
 

registered

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
windspirit said:

I've just re-read quickly one of Raitsin's interviews (I was wondering what he thought about skating the whole programs in practice). He said that once he took a skater (didn't name him) that others had already given up on. The skater was very unreliable in competitions. The judges and coaches thought there's nothing wrong with his technique, but he didn't have a good psychological preparation. So, he worked with a psychologist for a year. That didn't help. His jumps were very inconsistent. To make the story short: they worked on his speed and strength endurance (and cut his ice training in half...). Anyway, after 6 months, the skater's jumps were 40 cm higher, and much more consistent (we're talking about triples, he didn't have a quad yet, but he was much closer to it after that). Raitsin said that it's because he was no longer using up all of his resources on one jump, but about 60% of them. In result he was able to skate a few of his programs at one practice, and, for example, when he skated his free program three times (with all the elements), from the 20 different kinds of jumps he blew only two. (It's just my attempt at summarizing one part of that long and detailed interview).

Well, I wonder what he would say about Sasha's problems, and what would happen if he worked with her for some time.

Tarasova tried to bring Raitsin to the US, to work with Sasha during the summer, but he was denied the Entry Visa. I read about it on TT's web site. So, instead, TT hired Vladimir Petrenko (Victor's brother) to work with Sasha, as a fitness coach (supposedly, he's a good one). Tatiana said that they also worked on Sasha's jumps, so she could jump higher, than she used to.
 

lavender

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Let's not worry about Sasha yet. She's now had a full summer training with TT and adding on new things to help her. I'm sure she will get it together this season. If not then I will start to worry.
 
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gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Mathman said:
To me, the most remarkable women's figure skating champion was Madge Syers of Great Britain. She entered the 1902 Olympics in the men's division (there was no women's division then),

1902 Worlds. There was no 1902 Olympics (and no Olympic skating until 1908). Typo?
 

tharrtell

TriGirl Rinkside
On the Ice
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
registered said:
So, instead, TT hired Vladimir Petrenko (Victor's brother) to work with Sasha, as a fitness coach (supposedly, he's a good one). Tatiana said that they also worked on Sasha's jumps, so she could jump higher, than she used to.

Can't wait to see the results of this work. Sasha with a little more 'oomph' could be exciting.
 
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