It's Time for Caroline Zhang to Move ON

Medusa · Feb 28, 2009

bx11 said:
If she choose to wait, she is going to become an another Mira Leung of Canada.

Heh? I am not saying that Zhang has to wait, of course she'll go to competitions, polish her skills, have fun, will bomb here and there and impress at other competitions. What I am saying is that people should wait for her, for her to adjust, for her to realise her potential, accept that she is just 15 and needs time to develop.

feraina · Feb 28, 2009

Caroline & her coach have a pretty good relationship. In Chinese culture, people don't act publicly intimate, even if they have a close relationship. Chinese parents and kids above a certain age don't generally even hug each other after not having seen each other a long time. Mingzhu Li's language tells me that she cares a lot about her student, that Caroline is a bit like her "baby", but she's always trying to not to show it, whereas Caroline seems slightly oblivious to that, or maybe just at the age where she doesn't want to seem "babied" in public.

Anyway, nothing in that coaching relationship bothers me. I'm more concerned that Caroline should find someone who can bring dramatic improvements to her basic skating skills, presentation, and jumping technique. I feel like Li's incremental approach isn't really working for her right now.

It's better for her to change coach ASAP instead of waiting until the next Olympic cycle.

Another coach she might possibly consider is John Nicks, who trained Sasha into a great skater. If Caroline can gain Sasha's presence & elegance (who's really quite close to her in style and natural ability), and retain her natural mental toughness, I think it could work out really great for her.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 28, 2009

There are so many jump judges which will give her the cleanliness of the jumps that she needs. Given her style, the mule kick looks worse than it would on others who do not have that soft ballet-like style. As for speeding it up, I would suggest other music to force her to look more bravura yet retain her lyricism.

For the present SP, I just chalk it up as one of those unfortunate days.

BelleFilleYuna · Feb 28, 2009

feraina said:
Another is Yu-na Kim, who really didn't have especially high jumps, deep edges, or fast skating at 14/15. Yu-na was injured and re-injured for a few seasons in a row, but going to Brian Orser has really helped her to be a much stronger skater in the long run. Caroline could really use a coach like that! Instead, I feel like her current coaching team is just tweaking small things based on what she can already do, and they don't really have a "vision" to make her significantly better.

I do think that Caroline might be the one who can benefit most from the coaching in Cricket Club, I heard that Yu-Na participates in other sessions which is not directly designed for single skaters, such as icedance and other classes where they focus on skating skills. But I always had an impression that Caroline and Coach Li are tight bonded like family also with Karen Kwan's management, aren't they??

BTW I don't know why you think Yu-Na didn't have high jumps or fast skating at early ages. I think Yu-Na's jumps became smaller than when she was 13. Well, Yu-Na said she's trying not to jump too high at 4cc interview with Korean media so maybe that's why.
Anyway, here's a clip of her at 13 and I hope you can see the difference because those jumps are gigantic for a 13 year-old-girl.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26V0QOr_UUQ

caaather · Feb 28, 2009

does anyone kno what caroline's next competition is ???

Kypma · Feb 28, 2009

caaather said:
does anyone kno what caroline's next competition is ???

Next season's Grand Prix Series... or any summer comps, but she's not going to Worlds unless something happens to the others, and I think Ashley is the first alternate... Although Caroline might be at the Team Championships, depending on selection criteria and all...

-kypma

SeaniBu · Feb 28, 2009

feraina said:
Mingzhu Li's language tells me that she cares a lot about her student, that Caroline is a bit like her "baby", but she's always trying to not to show it, whereas Caroline seems slightly oblivious to that, or maybe just at the age where she doesn't want to seem "babied" in public..

That alone - regardless of culture (welcome to the world / USA) - does not seem like a healthy relationship. Nor is it a good way to have a "professional" relationship IMO.

feraina said:
It's better for her to change coach ASAP instead of waiting until the next Olympic cycle.

:agree::agree::agree:

skates · Feb 28, 2009

Actually, it is normal for a student to treat his/her teacher like a second mother/father in Chinese culture, especially if the teacher has brought you to glory.

Joesitz (RIP) · Feb 28, 2009

Hold everything. She just got credited with 7 triiples at the jr comp and I'm changing my tune about her coaching. If you haven't seen it catch it on youtube if there is one up.

Eurofan · Feb 28, 2009

Joesitz said:
, I would suggest other music to force her to look more bravura yet retain her lyricism.

LeCygne · Feb 28, 2009

I think the problem is that she's so tough and such a fighter that she'll never let herself fall too hard or too low. She'll always save herself if it's physically possible, so she gets the idea that things are not as bad as they are. She'll keep thinking she's doing fine, and although she IS doing fine, I'm sure she'll want more than "fine" in the future. I know we already do.

That's not to say I'm not completely thrilled she brought herself up 8 spots and still ended up top American lady, because of course I am. I just hope she'll remember that SP.

herios · Feb 28, 2009

Joesitz said:
Hold everything. She just got credited with 7 triiples at the jr comp and I'm changing my tune about her coaching. If you haven't seen it catch it on youtube if there is one up.

She still have to learn how to take off an BOE. That is a tough task for a skater who learned it the worng way. Once she starts working on that, the other jumps become inconsistent, especially the flip. She needs a coach change.

Mathman · Feb 28, 2009

caaather said:
does anyone kno what caroline's next competition is ?

Kypma said:
Next season's Grand Prix Series... or any summer comps, but she's not going to Worlds unless something happens to the others, and I think Ashley is the first alternate... Although Caroline might be at the Team Championships, depending on selection criteria and all...

I think the rules for the team championship specify that each federation is expected to send its higest ranked skaters, according tio the ISU ranking. With Worlds still to come, Caroline is the higest ranked U.S. skater, ahead of Flatt and 900 points ahead of Czisny.

It will probably be Zhang and Flatt.

Buttercup · Feb 28, 2009

Mathman said:
I think the rules for the team championship specify that each federation is expected to send its higest ranked skaters, according tio the ISU ranking. With Worlds still to come, Caroline is the higest ranked U.S. skater, ahead of Flatt and 900 points ahead of Czisny.

It will probably be Zhang and Flatt.

As I understand it, which countries make it is based on results by the top people, but I'm not sure the federations are obligated to send their highest ranked skaters. It is very clear that anyone chosen has to go, though.

heyang · Feb 28, 2009

flying camel said:
Where does Yuka Sato live?
Being just 15 I can't see her leaving her family to train. I think she should stay in California.

Lets see there's Frank, hey doesn't Kistie's old coach coach in California somewhere? Where does Brian Boitano live?

I hope she does not go to Arutunian, he made me very uncomfortable. There was something about him I just don't like.

It is not too late for Caroline to fix her jumps. If Alissa can fix hers in her 20's its certainly not too late for Caroline.

I believe Yuka and Jason's home base is Detroit. They both trained in that area as amateurs and I think Jason coaches at their old rink.

Kristi followed Christy Ness to Canada before the 92 Oly's. Not sure if she's still there.

Boitano's base is San Francisco - about an 8 hr drive from LA.

Didn't Michelle go to Artunian because he is a jump coach? Also, he's already at the rink she trains in. Even if he's not her head coach, he could certainly give her some time.

flying camel · Feb 28, 2009

heyang said:
I believe Yuka and Jason's home base is Detroit. They both trained in that area as amateurs and I think Jason coaches at their old rink.

Kristi followed Christy Ness to Canada before the 92 Oly's. Not sure if she's still there.

Boitano's base is San Francisco - about an 8 hr drive from LA.

Didn't Michelle go to Artunian because he is a jump coach? Also, he's already at the rink she trains in. Even if he's not her head coach, he could certainly give her some time.

Thanks Heyang

I guess if Artunian was just her jump coach it would not be too bad. But I get the feeling Michelle didn't get along with him too well, and why did Mao leave him?

PolymerBob · Feb 28, 2009

Caroline's Wikipedia entry lists her as having 2 coaches. So maybe she already has someone helping her with her jumps.

ks777 · Feb 28, 2009

PolymerBob said:
Caroline's Wikipedia entry lists her as having 2 coaches. So maybe she already has someone helping her with her jumps.

Are you talking about Sondra Holmes? I think Sondra's been one of Caroline's coach for a long time.

demarinis5 · Feb 28, 2009

feraina said:
Caroline & her coach have a pretty good relationship. In Chinese culture, people don't act publicly intimate, even if they have a close relationship. Chinese parents and kids above a certain age don't generally even hug each other after not having seen each other a long time. Mingzhu Li's language tells me that she cares a lot about her student, that Caroline is a bit like her "baby", but she's always trying to not to show it, whereas Caroline seems slightly oblivious to that, or maybe just at the age where she doesn't want to seem "babied" in public. QUOTE]

Thanks for the reminder Feraina. In my prior post I did not take Chinese culture into consideration, my bad.

It's Time for Caroline Zhang to Move ON

Medusa

feraina

Joesitz (RIP)

BelleFilleYuna

caaather

Kypma

SeaniBu

skates

Joesitz (RIP)

Eurofan

LeCygne

herios

Mathman

Buttercup

heyang

flying camel

PolymerBob

ks777

demarinis5

Gold for the Winter Prince!

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