Chock Full of Gold | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Chock Full of Gold

camion

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
I've just noticed something! Madison's OD dress is actually Lauren Senft's old dress

I know it's an useless comment but I wanted to say it :laugh:

Haha! That's interesting....are they from the same club? Madison's costume isn't that bad, but my mother would never let me be caught in such a low-cut design.:laugh:

The exhibition no. is just trashy. I don't think the boots help either.
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
Haha! That's interesting....are they from the same club? Madison's costume isn't that bad, but my mother would never let me be caught in such a low-cut design.:laugh:

The exhibition no. is just trashy. I don't think the boots help either.

I'm pretty sure Lauren Senft and Augie Hill were coached by Zueva/Shpilband as well.
 

skatingbc

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 2, 2009
I've always thought that people look better when their wearing more modest apparel. In ice dance, there could be so many gorgeous, flowing dresses, and yet some girls wear revealing, skin-tight costumes. I especially wish Madison would wear her flowing dresses more often.

To be honest, Madison's dress is pretty modest compared to a lot of other skaters. Not a huge fan of that exhibition outfit, but her OD dress is beautiful!
 

icedancexpert

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Thank you oleada,
I was just stating my opinion...
...and based on the direction this thread has taken, it would seem (to me) that we are certainly not the only ones who are "unimpressed" by C/Z's skating.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Are we finished with the Dress Code???

Having not seen them until Junior GPs and having read all about their inability to form a rapport with each other, I watched them in a prefixed mind. They have more than enough rapport for a Junior Dance Team, and their Spillband skating is in line with all his top teams.

Personally, I see Chock as the dominant member of the team now. Very determined to win GOLD!! However, I do see him as a young man with enough interest in Ice Dance to start taking control in one or two years. In fact, I see them surpassing D/W after the Olys. Mark me.
 

icedancexpert

Rinkside
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
hmmm...interesting. I find their "rapport" forced. They do all the arms and they try to make their faces show that they feel their music but after I finish watching them skate, I don't feel anything.
By the way, I just checked their ISU profile and he is already 20 (he looks younger). They are a solid team but I don't think they have the chemistry or the appeal (as a team) that it takes to be a great team.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In fact, I see them surpassing D/W after the Olys.

It does seem like there has been a sea change in ice dance, and that it is becoming more like singles skating in this respect.

In the old days, teams would rise to the top slowly. Each had to wait in line until the teams above them retired. The next-to-top finishers at the Olympics would automatically be pencilled in as the medalists four years thence.

Now, teams seem to have a lot shorter shelf life. Belbin and Agosto give way to Davis and White, and Davis and White in turn are soon to be surpassed by the next wave. Two years ago Domina and Shabulin were all but given the 2010 Olympic gold medal. Now they are being pushed aside by Khokhlova and Novitski.

Also, injuries seem to be playing a much greater role than before. There is no guarantee that Delobel and Schoenfelder, or Belbin and Agosto, or Domnina and Shabulin will even make it to Vancouver.
 
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AwesomeIce

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
hmmm...interesting. I find their "rapport" forced. They do all the arms and they try to make their faces show that they feel their music but after I finish watching them skate, I don't feel anything.
By the way, I just checked their ISU profile and he is already 20 (he looks younger). They are a solid team but I don't think they have the chemistry or the appeal (as a team) that it takes to be a great team.

I think they are FAR more appealing than Davis and White.
 

100yen

You can't explain witchcraft
Medalist
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
I think they are FAR more appealing than Davis and White.

I think D/W seem more appealing because they are actually enjoying every moment of it and enjoying skating instead of just really trying to put on a face to win as many medals as you can. That's just how it seems to me.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
I think D/W seem more appealing because they are actually enjoying every moment of it and enjoying skating instead of just really trying to put on a face to win as many medals as you can. That's just how it seems to me.
I can agree with you as far as facial expression is concerned. They have it over C/Z and should. They've been around a long time, but their body language for me is just too expected and never surprising. Spilband knows how to sell it.

C/Z do not yet have the body language, and she can be over-the-top in exhuberance, but my point was, I believe he will know how to handle her by next year and he will move the body thusly so that there is no doubt of what they are feeling. Facial expressions for me are just Acting 101, Body language is classical dance. I hope Spillband guides them and not leads them.
 

AwesomeIce

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
I think D/W seem more appealing because they are actually enjoying every moment of it and enjoying skating instead of just really trying to put on a face to win as many medals as you can. That's just how it seems to me.

You don't think Davis and White are out there trying to win as many medals as they can? I've always gotten the impression that that is all they are after.

I find C&Z more appealing because she's not as stumpy and sloppy looking as Meryl.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Zuerlein is just not as strong a partner as either Agosto, Moir or White. And these days, if you will check out what is actually required from the protocols, the current version of the ice dance rules favors smaller girls and stronger guys than in the days of K&P, for example:

OD:
Twizzles, midline not touching step, dance spin, lift, a step sequence with holds, and an optional noncounting lift

Note than only one element, the sequence with holds, favors tall, long legged teams. And even that element, because of the requirement to get so many turns and edges in, is also harder for taller teams/skaters.

FD:
Dance spin, twizzles, 3 regular lifts, one lift that can be a combination, and one optional non scoring lift, and 2 step sequences. 6 of the 8 elements favor or at least do not discriminate against shorter girls with strong partners.

And this, my friends, is why K&N, D&W, Shibutanis, and DelSchoes have all done very, very well this year.

While it is still possible for a team that is closer in height & weight to do well, it is more difficult for them. This is one reason why it has been harder for B&A and DomShabs to get the higher levels, and to keep their spots this year. Only V&M among the similar height senior teams has really been able to keep their levels.

Ice dance as a sport has changed, and whether you like it or not, that's how it is.

However, it could well be that next year, post Olympics, the changes that are made to the rules will favor taller couples of similar height again.

As to D&W, they seem to be a very intelligent couple. I find myself saying, I wish they would work on this thing or that thing, and sure enough they do. When interviewed, it is clear that they understand both their strengths and their shortcomings. So I will not be at all surprised if they continue to improve.

If you're going to worry about Meryl's leg length, frankly we should save the money and skip the skating entirely. We should just name Miss Universe (who is always tall and leggy) the ice dance world champion.

However, I enjoy all these couples in their different ways. The only top couple's FD this year that I really do not care for is Faiella & Scali's Moonlight Mimes FD.
 
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oleada

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 27, 2007
I agree that Zuerlein is quite weak for Shpilband male dancer - his male dancers are usually outstanding (Agosto & White come to mind), while his female partners are weaker than average. In fact, I thought Zuerlein was the weakest man in the top 6 at JW (I thought Hill and Kiselev, though they didn't medal, were excellent and far superior to their partners). Honestly, the team so far is all about Madison. The way that Shpilband's previous teams have developed concerns me that her weaknesses will not be addressed. She already seems to be developing a habit of piking at the waist, kind of like Meryl Davis does sometimes. I get no originality, no real feeling from them (I don't GET anything from him). It seems very fake, like they could be skating to anything.

Doris, I think leg length is all about personal preference. I'll admit that I enjoy tall, long limbed dancers. It might not be fair, but it's just the way it is for some people. I think it's more aesthetically pleasing (the same way I find Nastia Liukin more aesthetically pleasing than Shawn Johson).
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Obviously, everyone has their preferences for what they like to watch. As well they should! I enjoy watching K&N and DomShabs and both V&M and D&W and DelSchoes and B&A. Their shortness or tallness or short leggedness or long leggedness doesn't bother me.

However, not understanding the rules, and confusing personal preference with what the technical scores are actually awarded for leads to uninformed conclusions. And no oleada, I am not accusing you of this :)

It is odd that Zuerlein is that weak for a Shpilband male partner. However, perhaps Igor has not yet finished with him yet. The Shpilband boys seem to improve steadily throughout their careers. It's the girls who sometimes stall and do not improve as quickly.

Meryl is an exception for a Shpilband girl-she has improved every year, & although there are still things she needs to fix, there are a lot less of them than last year, say. I really respect D&W for recognizing their shortcomings and steadily working on all of them.
 

lmarie086

Medalist
Joined
Jan 23, 2008
As to D&W, they seem to be a very intelligent couple. I find myself saying, I wish they would work on this thing or that thing, and sure enough they do. When interviewed, it is clear that they understand both their strengths and their shortcomings. So I will not be at all surprised if they continue to improve.

If you're going to worry about Meryl's leg length, frankly we should save the money and skip the skating entirely. We should just name Miss Universe (who is always tall and leggy) the ice dance world champion.

That's something I really appreciate about them as well. They do seem very intelligent and willing to work on their weaknesses. They're nowhere near perfect, but they improve from one competition to the next. I really respect that about them, and it keeps me looking forward to seeing what they do/improve on next.

The whole leg length thing doesn't matter to me as much, but I can definitely understand the bias for dancers with long legs. But if a girl with short legs is trying and willing to improve, it's not going to make all that much of a difference to me.

entire post

I think you hit the nail on the head oleada. This team is all about Madison, he's almost invisible at times (kinda like K/N, though he's more noticeable than he used to be). And that's probably one of the biggest problems I have with them portraying Phantom and Christine. The Phantom is a powerful role- Greg should have utter command and make audience focus on HIM. But he does no justice to the role, and he and Madison have the typical angsty expression that doesn't develop in any way throughout the dance- there's no light and shade (and I definitely think there can be). IMO, Madison is too vivacious as Christine, who's supposed to be more demure (I just happen to really love the story so it bothers me lol). And after D/V's excellent FD from 2006, this disappoints me a lot. There's a lack of understanding the music that really disappoints me as well-they don't interpret it IMO.

Meryl is an exception for a Shpilband girl-she has improved every year, & although there are still things she needs to fix, there are a lot less of them than last year, say. I really respect D&W for recognizing their shortcomings and steadily working on all of them.

Thanks for saying that. I definitely think Meryl has her areas to improve on, and I think she probably recognizes this. If you've ever seen D/W's FD from 2006 JW there's a smoother quality to her skating-I think her extension and toe point are overall better there than it has been in awhile (though it's improving again, to her merit). I think a big thing was sacrificing that to gain speed and power; now that they've gained that I'm expecting her to bring that back. D/W's unison was quite off last season, but this year it's been much better. So they're both willing to work on their weaknesses (I hope the next one is posture).
 
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