Beverly Smith on Patrick Chan | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Beverly Smith on Patrick Chan

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Well, give credit where it's due. Chan IS GOOD. So there's nothing wrong with that? And it's unfair to say that many Canadians like Chan is a "cult". I'm pretty sure Kim and Asado receive as much attention (if not more) in their home country as well. So What's wrong with that?

And for you (and many others) to dislike Chan simply because he's good and he's liked by the judges and the Canadian media just show how silly it can be.

Well, like it or not, such over-the-top gushing from fans (especially the ones of the still young and developing skaters) always tend to more or less generate negative feelings toward the skate themselves, no matter whether such feelings are projected rationally or not. I'm not saying Chan fans are nearly as bad, but the obsessive behaviour from some of the Kim, Asada and V/M fans have already turned many people off.
 
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jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Well, like it or not, such over-the-top gushing from fans (especially the ones of the still young and developing skaters) always tend to more or less generate negative feelings toward the skate themselves, no matter whether such feelings are projected rationally or not. I'm not saying Chan fans are nearly as bad, but the obsessive behaviour from some of the Kim, Asada and V/M fans have already turned many people off.


But young doesn't always mean "developing". Sure, everyone can still improve, including the veterans. Young can be talented and well developed as well, either they have it or don't. So because they are young, they shouldn't be respected as the veterans?
I have no problem people go crazy over Kim or Asada or V/M or Chan. They are young and talented and GOOD. If other people have problem with them, well, it's their own problem....but by turning around and against these young skaters because they are popular is just ridiculous.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
But young doesn't always mean "developing". Sure, everyone can still improve, including the veterans. Young can be talented and well developed as well, either they have it or don't. So because they are young, they shouldn't be respected as the veterans?
I have no problem people go crazy over Kim or Asada or V/M or Chan. They are young and talented and GOOD. If other people have problem with them, well, it's their own problem....but by turning around and against these young skaters because they are popular is just ridiculous.
I think you are missing the point. Talent should be and is always praised. But sometimes praises can go over-the-top for what has actually been achieved. Certainly Chan is an extremely talented skater and already wonderful the way he is, and I don't think many would disagree. But what some people (me included) are starting to find annoying are the exaggeration of his talents and overboard praises that make him sound like he's the best skater there ever has been or the ultimate that a skater could ever become, when in fact, there are still areas where he can definitely work on.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Talent should and is always praised. But sometimes praises can go over-the-top for what has actually been achieved. Certainly Chan is an extremely talented skater and already wonderful the way he is, and I don't think many would disagree. But what some people (me included) are starting to find annoying are the exaggeration of his talents and overboard praises that make him sound like he's the best skater there ever has been or the ultimate that a skater could ever become, when in fact, there are still areas where he can definitely work on.
Exactly. If I'd seen Chan for the first time without hearing so much beforehand about how great he was, I'd probably think he was a good skater, with lots of potential, some things he needed to work on and some where he was already very strong. I doubt he would have been my favorite, but I imagine my reaction would have been mostly positive. Instead, I feel as if this skater is being held up as an example of all that's good in figure skating and presented as though he is the greatest hope for the sport, while others are dismissed as has-beens or having sub-par talent. That's what I meant when I wrote that the negative feeling is not a result of anything Patrick himself has done. But I can't help feeling that he is being overhyped, and that his marks are not always reflective of what he does on the ice. I would've said the same had it been an American, or a Chinese, or a Swedish skater.

As I've written before, I think Chan has great skating skills and lovely footwork. But I also think his jumps are not completely there yet, not just the lack of a quad, but real consistency on the 3A as well. These are things I expect from an elite skater, and Chan knows he has to work on them - so why are some people treatng him as if he's already perfect in every way? I would have preferred a more clear-eyed assessment from Ms. Smith, as is appropriate for a journalist. Instead it's almost as though the profile was written for a fan magazine or website.

I also worry that the expectations being created for Chan will result in too much pressure for such a young athlete to deal with, even if he is talented and composed. Does anyone want to see a repeat of what happened to Carolina Kostner back in 2006? Lay off and let Patrick develop without all this pressure.

ETA: Re Jeffrey's comment being taken out of context - no, apparently he does mean in comparison to everyone, because he says so again here. That's an excellent column by Buttle, by the way, classy and really worth reading. Maybe Jeffrey should do the commentary rather than certain other people.
 
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fumie_fumie

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
I'm trying to figure out why we see the hypes over this still young and developing Patrick.

I think Canadian media and journalists think of Patrick as an opportunity to regain the popularity of figure skating that has been on decline since the retirement of Elvis Stojko and Salle/Pelletier. Look at videos of Canadians prior to 2003 and compare them to recent Canadians 2008/2009, and you will see how empty the arena feels in recent years. Had Jeff stayed eligible longer, we would have seen the same type of hypes over Jeff. When Sandhu was around, it was all about his narrow-misses.

Here is Scott Russell on the current status of figure skating in Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/blogs/2009/03/hollywood_nights_figure_skatin.html

ETA:

Patrick is not a type of person who cares about what media says. He will go his merry way. I don't buy into the idea that one or two articles will put a pressure on him. With an exception of a few fans, majority of Canadians don't even know who he is. We are not talking about skaters from Asia.
 
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Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
Eventually the pressure will set in. It's inevitable. As his popularity grows and the expectations for him to save the world one ice rink at a time becomes the main stream, he'll feel it.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Patrick is not a type of person who cares about what media says. He will go his merry way. I don't buy into the idea that one or two articles will put a pressure on him. With an exception of a few fans, majority of Canadians don't even know who he is. We are not talking about skaters from Asia.
I was one of the people who brought this up, so I'll try and explain. Certainly one or two articles aren't a lot of pressure. It's not one or two articles anymore, though: it's many articles that can be over the top in building up Patrick as superior to the other guys, and a sponsorship deal with McDonalds which will make him much more visible, plus huge marks in the last two events held in Canada (some say too huge), and the last world champion saying Chan's skills are way beyond anyone else's (which makes me wonder what Buttle is watching, exactly - but never mind that :)). That's beyond a bit of excitement over a talented young skater.

I agree that Patrick seems like a well-adjusted guy, but he is still very young, and the buildup to me is reminiscent of Carolina Kostner circa 2005-6. Caro ended up being the flag brearer for Italy, which I'm sure was a thrill and a great honor for her; but she also ended up 9th, and did even worse at Worlds the next month, to the point that some were concerned she might not be able to bounce back mentally (happily, she did). I'm not a fan of Patrick's, but I wouldn't wish that kind of pressure and that kind of performance on him. And unlike Mao and Yu-Na, Patrick will be skating in his home country at the Olympics, which can create all sorts of craziness.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I have to say I am on the side of the gushers. Hooray for my guy, he's Superman, y'all wimps can kiss my cape! :rock:

That's what makes it fun to be a sports fan. :)
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
I think you are missing the point. Talent should and is always praised. But sometimes praises can go over-the-top for what has actually been achieved. Certainly Chan is an extremely talented skater and already wonderful the way he is, and I don't think many would disagree. But what some people (me included) are starting to find annoying are the exaggeration of his talents and overboard praises that make him sound like he's the best skater there ever has been or the ultimate that a skater could ever become, when in fact, there are still areas where he can definitely work on.

I'm not disagreeing what you said. But again, as stated before. Anyone has their right of opinions. If people love a certain skater (Chan/V/M/Kim etc) and thought they are the best blah blah blah, I don't see the problem with that. They are called FANS. But I do have problem for people turning against the skater simply because they are popular is just ridiculous.

Just look at the 4CC thread. It's almost like becoming a Chan bashing cause he got great marks and won. Totally ridiculous.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Just look at the 4CC thread. It's almost like becoming a Chan bashing cause he got great marks and won. Totally ridiculous.
Actually, if you do read that thread and not just look at it, you will see that the majority of the posters who were unhappy with the scoring focused their criticism on the judges. In fact, several people specifically noted that Chan himself had done nothing wrong and was a deserving winner - just not by the margin he had.

Many skaters are popular; this is not what is causing a backlash here. It is the over the top nature of some of the coverage Chan receives, along with the occasionally generous scoring he benefits from, that bothers some people. This is no reflection on who Chan is as a person or an athlete, and it does not strike me as a surprising reaction, nor is it "bashing" of the skater - a charge that is often levelled at those of us who do not feel that Chan is the best thing to hit the ice in recent memory.

It's clear that you are a big fan of Patrick Chan, which is fine, and you are certainly not alone in appreciating his skating. But to suggest that the only appropriate posts regarding Chan are positive ones is ridiculous. Shine and I have repeatedly tried to explain why we feel Chan, while a very good skater, is getting too much hype and can be overmarked. You clearly don't want to accept our point of view as legitimate, even if not agreeable to you, so at this point I feel it's best to end our discussion on the subject, and agree to disagree.
 

i love to skate

Medalist
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
I don't think it is too much pressure for Patrick and it is best that he gets a taste of it this year before the Olympics come around. Every Canadian athlete is going to have immense pressure on their shoulders come the Games - we want medals. For example, in hockey, it is pretty much gold or bust. There is no point in trying to pretend the pressure isn't there because it is.

Skate Canada is doing everything they can to make sure the skaters are well prepared. Wasn't Kostner pretty much the only hope for a medal in figure skating for Italy? I can't remember. Anyways, Chan won't be the only Canadian skater fighting for a medal come the Olympics so he won't be totally alone. All the Canadian skaters seem to accept the pressure and want to have the chance to do something special on home ice.
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Unless fans demand everyone share their sentiments about their favorite skaters, I see no problem with over-the-top fandom. That is what sustains the sport regardless of the gloom and doom stories we hear about the decline of figure skating. Chan fans, and fans of any skater, are entitled to believe (s)he's the best skater all they want. Expressing opinions and sentiments doesn't make anything a fact, so why let it turn you against the skater?

About the media hype, it's like a necessary evil. It brings the skater and whatever the event he's entering much-needed attention and popularity with increased chance of a sponsorship deal, but at the cost of accumulated pressure and annoyed skating fans. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
 

fumie_fumie

Final Flight
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Yes, I'm one of the Patrick ubers, fanatics out there and just wanted to wish him all the best and many, many, many successes in the future.
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Actually, if you do read that thread and not just look at it, you will see that the majority of the posters who were unhappy with the scoring focused their criticism on the judges. In fact, several people specifically noted that Chan himself had done nothing wrong and was a deserving winner - just not by the margin he had.

Many skaters are popular; this is not what is causing a backlash here. It is the over the top nature of some of the coverage Chan receives, along with the occasionally generous scoring he benefits from, that bothers some people. This is no reflection on who Chan is as a person or an athlete, and it does not strike me as a surprising reaction, nor is it "bashing" of the skater - a charge that is often levelled at those of us who do not feel that Chan is the best thing to hit the ice in recent memory.

It's clear that you are a big fan of Patrick Chan, which is fine, and you are certainly not alone in appreciating his skating. But to suggest that the only appropriate posts regarding Chan are positive ones is ridiculous. Shine and I have repeatedly tried to explain why we feel Chan, while a very good skater, is getting too much hype and can be overmarked. You clearly don't want to accept our point of view as legitimate, even if not agreeable to you, so at this point I feel it's best to end our discussion on the subject, and agree to disagree.

Oh, didn't someone say something like....I can't root for Chan because of all the hype he got etc? That to me is exactly what I find ridiculous. It's ok to like or dislike a skater, but to against a skater simply because he's popular is silly. I really don't care how people feel about Chan (cause everyone is entitled to like or dislike someone) but I just want to point out the silliness of some remarks were made to dislike someone. :rolleye:
 

jettasian

Match Penalty
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
unless fans demand everyone share their sentiments about their favorite skaters, i see no problem with over-the-top fandom. That is what sustains the sport regardless of the gloom and doom stories we hear about the decline of figure skating. Chan fans, and fans of any skater, are entitled to believe (s)he's the best skater all they want. Expressing opinions and sentiments doesn't make anything a fact, so why let it turn you against the skater?

exactly!!!
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Unless fans demand everyone share their sentiments about their favorite skaters, I see no problem with over-the-top fandom. That is what sustains the sport regardless of the gloom and doom stories we hear about the decline of figure skating. Chan fans, and fans of any skater, are entitled to believe (s)he's the best skater all they want. Expressing opinions and sentiments doesn't make anything a fact, so why let it turn you against the skater?
Sure one can gush away. But don't be shocked or even outraged when others find it exaggerated and speak their mind.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Oh, didn't someone say something like....I can't root for Chan because of all the hype he got etc? That to me is exactly what I find ridiculous. It's ok to like or dislike a skater, but to against a skater simply because he's popular is silly. I really don't care how people feel about Chan (cause everyone is entitled to like or dislike someone) but I just want to point out the silliness of some remarks were made to dislike someone. :rolleye:
So what if that's exactly their feeling? It's one thing to not root for a skater and another to dislike them personally. And over-the-top fandom from one group of fans almost always generates a lukewarm reaction from another group of spectators who might have otherwise reacted more enthusiastically. I'm not sure why that is so ridiculously surprising to you.
 

Wrlmy

Medalist
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Sure one can gush away. But don't be shocked or even outraged when others find it exaggerated and speak their mind.

Of course I wouldn't be shocked or outraged by slightest bit. Fandom is all about exaggeration. If you read my post carefully, it's disliking a skater just because of the fandom which I don't get. One can make his/her argument without resorting to "I dislike your favorite skater because of you" or stay away from ubers to begin with.
 

shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Of course I wouldn't be shocked or outraged by slightest bit. Fandom is all about exaggeration. If you read my post carefully, it's disliking a skater just because of the fandom which I don't get. One can make his/her argument without resorting to "I dislike your favorite skater because of you" or stay away from ubers to begin with.
And I don't understand why is it so difficult to see the difference between feeling turned off by excessive fandom in general and actually disliking a skater.
 
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Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Of course I wouldn't be shocked or outraged by slightest bit. Fandom is all about exaggeration. If you read my post carefully, it's disliking a skater just because of the fandom which I don't get. One can make his/her argument without resorting to "I dislike your favorite skater because of you" or stay away from ubers to begin with.
I don't mind the fandom - my guess is that all of us are fans of specific skaters, and obviously there are plenty of popular skaters out there. I just dislike having a specific skater held up as an example of all that's good and appealing, while others are dismissed as not up to said skater's standards. This does come across from some in the media and some fans regarding Chan, to a greater extent than for any other skater I can think of, except maybe Mao/Yu-Na - and at least there are two of them to share in it, and they have the results to back up that assessment. Chan is not "head and shoulders" above the others, and that kind of hyperbole is annoying. If I liked his skating more, maybe I could ignore it, but really he doesn't excite me or engage my interest as much as some of the others do.
 
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