What do our American skaters need to do?
- Thread starter Johar
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
She said they should practice harder and skate faster.
I suggest they also figure out what Joannie has done and emulate it. She is one who really kicked it up a notch this year - and mostly without a 3/3.
My second suggestion would be that they get dynamite programs that are not just COP-friendly (although they must be that, for sure) but also have emotional appeal and fit the skaters' own abilities like a glove. I know one change Joannie consciously made this season was to change her FP music to something more appealing because the Jimi Hendrix program didn't go over well. Both Rachael and Caroline found that their FPs this year were not successful. Hopefully they can get it right the first time next season since there's no time to waste.
I suggest they also figure out what Joannie has done and emulate it. She is one who really kicked it up a notch this year - and mostly without a 3/3.
My second suggestion would be that they get dynamite programs that are not just COP-friendly (although they must be that, for sure) but also have emotional appeal and fit the skaters' own abilities like a glove. I know one change Joannie consciously made this season was to change her FP music to something more appealing because the Jimi Hendrix program didn't go over well. Both Rachael and Caroline found that their FPs this year were not successful. Hopefully they can get it right the first time next season since there's no time to waste.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
All skaters (not just Americans) need a choreographer who understands the difficult elements and place them in a routine which will not be a hindrance to the skater.
Whoever instituted the Front Loading elements knew that these 'tricks' needed absolute clear preparations for perfect execution. Little footwork or even just crossovers before a diffcult jump would ensure the skater of a clean element.
However, it does hurt creativity on the part of the choreographer. No matter, because the difficult jumps get high points and the rest of the program will be footwork into lesser difficulties, and the skater will get good points for transitions.
Other points to watch would be the 'rush' to get those bonus points. There should be no 'rush' but careful planning and absolute surety that the skater can execute these elements with energy at that point in time.
Skaters working closely with choreographers with the coach looking on is a must and not just at the last minute. The description: "Tweeking" is ballywhood around quite a bit, but is it put into practice?
Whoever instituted the Front Loading elements knew that these 'tricks' needed absolute clear preparations for perfect execution. Little footwork or even just crossovers before a diffcult jump would ensure the skater of a clean element.
However, it does hurt creativity on the part of the choreographer. No matter, because the difficult jumps get high points and the rest of the program will be footwork into lesser difficulties, and the skater will get good points for transitions.
Other points to watch would be the 'rush' to get those bonus points. There should be no 'rush' but careful planning and absolute surety that the skater can execute these elements with energy at that point in time.
Skaters working closely with choreographers with the coach looking on is a must and not just at the last minute. The description: "Tweeking" is ballywhood around quite a bit, but is it put into practice?
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
What could Bebe Liang do to beat Rachael Flatt?
What could Candice Didier do to beat Bebe Liang?
etc...
The point is that there's not always a way. Some of it is just based on ability and training. Certainly they could all take a hard look at why the asians and other top scorers get the scores they do, and work towards that. But I think it's unfair to even compare them. You have to be realistic... Rachael Flatt is not Yun-a Kim nor is she Mao Asada, and realistically probably won't ever be.
For Michelle to even imply that our girls could reach that level is really disingenuous, and even unfair to them. Michelle never had to compete against the current crop of (asian) skaters. I believe she would find them more challenging than the opponents in her day, and I hope she realizes that.
Anyway, Rachael MIGHT have the best shot at the podium since she at least has consistency. I get the feeling that consistency is harder to gain than improving artistry and beautiful positions. However, it remains to be seen how far she can realistically advance in those things by the Olympics.
What could Candice Didier do to beat Bebe Liang?
etc...
The point is that there's not always a way. Some of it is just based on ability and training. Certainly they could all take a hard look at why the asians and other top scorers get the scores they do, and work towards that. But I think it's unfair to even compare them. You have to be realistic... Rachael Flatt is not Yun-a Kim nor is she Mao Asada, and realistically probably won't ever be.
For Michelle to even imply that our girls could reach that level is really disingenuous, and even unfair to them. Michelle never had to compete against the current crop of (asian) skaters. I believe she would find them more challenging than the opponents in her day, and I hope she realizes that.
Anyway, Rachael MIGHT have the best shot at the podium since she at least has consistency. I get the feeling that consistency is harder to gain than improving artistry and beautiful positions. However, it remains to be seen how far she can realistically advance in those things by the Olympics.
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Imo, in the case of Liang, she has consistently fallen on what I believe was a triple flip half way in her routines. It doesn't take rocket science to scream out 'get the flip' out of there.
It could be put in another part of the program. I reiterate, Skater, Choreographer, Coach should work as a team. It doesn't mean a skater will win a comp, but it will give the skater his/her best.As for Rachael, she is a fighter and works to skate her best. That in itself is all she can do and she does. :agree:
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
Great topic
Firstly, you got to learn to make the code work for you. That's the secret. Everyone is not going to get a ton of points from jumping. You got to find ways to get those points in other elements, maybe the footwork, harder transitions, more difficult spins. Joannie got lots of points in her choreography. Her choreographer and maybe herself have learned to make the code work for her.
Secondly, fix those wrong edge take offs and underrotations. Nobody should be getting those deductions. Hire yourself a jump coach. Work your butt off over the summer on your jumps. If you keep getting those deductions then do something to fix them. Those deductions can be the difference in a medal at the Olympics.
Thirdly, You got to pick some great music. This is so important. There is too much riding on next season to be worried that nobody likes your music. You also got to have some great choreography to go with that music. I think Rachael & Caroline need to be very careful here. They both need to take some risk, but it's got to be a risk that's going to work. I would like to see Rachael skate to some type of musical. I would like to see Caroline come out of the Michelle/Sasha shadow and find herself. Who is Caroline? That's what I want to see.
Also, Rachael, Caroline and Alissa have got to start the season strong and end strong. Don't let the judges or the audience forget about you.
Firstly, you got to learn to make the code work for you. That's the secret. Everyone is not going to get a ton of points from jumping. You got to find ways to get those points in other elements, maybe the footwork, harder transitions, more difficult spins. Joannie got lots of points in her choreography. Her choreographer and maybe herself have learned to make the code work for her.
Secondly, fix those wrong edge take offs and underrotations. Nobody should be getting those deductions. Hire yourself a jump coach. Work your butt off over the summer on your jumps. If you keep getting those deductions then do something to fix them. Those deductions can be the difference in a medal at the Olympics.
Thirdly, You got to pick some great music. This is so important. There is too much riding on next season to be worried that nobody likes your music. You also got to have some great choreography to go with that music. I think Rachael & Caroline need to be very careful here. They both need to take some risk, but it's got to be a risk that's going to work. I would like to see Rachael skate to some type of musical. I would like to see Caroline come out of the Michelle/Sasha shadow and find herself. Who is Caroline? That's what I want to see.
Also, Rachael, Caroline and Alissa have got to start the season strong and end strong. Don't let the judges or the audience forget about you.
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Caroline seems to have hit on a good fit with Ave Maria. It suits her to a tee. What she has to do now is make her next program more exciting. Anything to make sure that the music and the skating that accompanies it is not monotonous.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
basically ignore the doomsday american attitude they're getting from fans and media alike and continue to grow and learn and expand... as far as the ladies and pairs go.
for Evan and the rest of the men, keep on keeping on... same with Ice Dance... just continue down the road of improvement.
for Evan and the rest of the men, keep on keeping on... same with Ice Dance... just continue down the road of improvement.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
And considering both Rachael AND Caroline (our top 2 ladies more or less) changed their music mid-season and reverted to old programs, that's not a good sign for their music choices. I hope they are both on all cylinders next year, in every single aspect.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2006
I want to see some suggestions for my girl Ashley. She could be stronger than either Caroline or Rachael if... if what? How can she get consistent?
I think that Caroline and Rachael both need to work on their basics, mainly. Caroline needs to continue to improve her underrotation issues and make her jumps bigger. Rachael needs to get her 3/3's consistent.
But the main thing with them is SPEED and attack.
But the main thing with them is SPEED and attack.
Several things. Most of you already hit the major issues. But I'll just go through a quick list, RD style:
- Don't give into media hype. Skate for yourself.
- Make the Cop work for YOU. That's what Kim and Asada are doing- every single movement they do on the ice is gaining points. The Americans must do the same.
- Develop Consistency. You just cannot afford to make major mistakes these days, particularly in the SP. We see this even at US Nationals.
- Pick music that suits your strengths. Own the routine, don't let it own you
That's about it.
- Don't give into media hype. Skate for yourself.
- Make the Cop work for YOU. That's what Kim and Asada are doing- every single movement they do on the ice is gaining points. The Americans must do the same.
- Develop Consistency. You just cannot afford to make major mistakes these days, particularly in the SP. We see this even at US Nationals.
- Pick music that suits your strengths. Own the routine, don't let it own you
That's about it.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
let's face it, the chance of an american lady on the podim at the olympics is small. We don't even know who will go, but whoever does go isn't really competitive with the asian girls, carolina and joannie. Rachel is conistant, and placed 5th in LA without a 3/3 and one or two mistakes. So theoretically she could make the podium with 2 clean skates and at least one 3/3.
I think that instead of creating a mad rush for the olympics the american ladies (and pairs) have get back to basics and create good, strong skaters out of themselves that will dominate after the big names retire after the olympics. Most of the ladies we are discussing are very young, so having them peak in 2014 is not at all a stretch.
They need better speed, cleaner edges, Racehel needs more stretch and athough she is improving needs to keep working on her posture. they all need more height in the jumps, something i think speed will help.
The american pairs (Keauna and Rocnke esp) need to stop trying the "big tricks" that they havn't quite mastered yet. i feel like they are rushing to do everything that the top pairs are doing without getting the consitincy first.
I think that instead of creating a mad rush for the olympics the american ladies (and pairs) have get back to basics and create good, strong skaters out of themselves that will dominate after the big names retire after the olympics. Most of the ladies we are discussing are very young, so having them peak in 2014 is not at all a stretch.
They need better speed, cleaner edges, Racehel needs more stretch and athough she is improving needs to keep working on her posture. they all need more height in the jumps, something i think speed will help.
The american pairs (Keauna and Rocnke esp) need to stop trying the "big tricks" that they havn't quite mastered yet. i feel like they are rushing to do everything that the top pairs are doing without getting the consitincy first.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2008
Can you explain the positive aspect of this post?
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2005
Ashley like Alissa needs to find some confidence. I think Caroline, Rachael and Nagasu all have a mental edge over Ashley. On paper she should be better then them, physically she should be better, but mentally she just doesn't have it. Unless she finds a way to conquer that she will always be behind these girls. Its sad because I would really like to see her do well.
Maybe a mentor would help. She would be perfect for that.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I think Ashley needs to "slow down her head". She has a tendency to rush her jump entries in her programs which in turn lead to under-rotations/off-axis rotation/flip outs/WET calls/inability to do the second jump on a combo. She worked really hard on the items in between the elements which made her SKATING better this year, but with the focus on the SS/TR/CH mark this past season, she never just turned off her brain and DID the elements (which we all know she CAN do) like the previous year at Nationals where she was just on fire. It's a shame, she CAN do all these things but she was thinking way to much. So, turn off your brain, Ashley!
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
Ok 1st thing is they need to make a program that has enough points to be competitive. Take the highest scoring short program & highest scoring long program and build a program with a choreographer/coach/specialist/anyone who knows about the COP, that has enough points. Because you know if you dont have enough points to be competitive you wont win, unless there is a total meltdown on someone else's part. Plus you know the top skaters are going to try and improve on what they did the previous year, so start at their top points and try to make anything that will get as close as possible to that. Just skating from one end of the rink to jump and then skating to the other end to jump with nothing inbetween isnt going to cut it.
It always floors me when people skate these programs and are shocked that they only got 50pts for a clean program when the top people are earning 60s/70s/80s. Did you honestly not know how many points your program would garner?? And for some reason if it doesnt score as high as you want when you 1st test it out, FIX IT. Dont skate the exact same way at the next competition, and be shocked that you still didnt win. But thats just me, when I do something competition wise I want to win not just be middle of the pack
Surround yourself with people who can improve your "flaws": jump technique, mental issues, poor spins, lack of flexibility etc. If your jumps have been getting hammered for your poor technique and your coach hasnt done anything to fix it, get a specialist..or a new coach. If your spins arent the best call Lucindah Ruh or someone to help you spin better and get more interesting positions. If your flexibility is poor go to ballet, which also helps for posture. As for the mental part, thats a tough one since its your own expectations really messing you up there. I know people say go to a performance coach, but does that even really help? I seriously doubt hypnosis helps as well(Ive always been skeptical of that) I know some skaters have used them but I dont recall any getting this magical help from it.
Get great music & a great costume. It sounds like that should be a no brainer, and should be a big deal. But it is important. Boring music: Moon River etc, can kill a program no matter how clean you jump. If people are yawning/sleeping/talking/texting during your program, you arent doing yourself any favors. Plus you dont get the audience clapping and rooting for you as you skate by them or doing your straightline footwork. When the audience claps with the music and is into it it helps out in the long run for you. Dont wear costumes that are garish or blend in with your skin tone. You should know what looks good on you, and if you dont have people that are going to be honest with you and tell you,"you look pastey in that", "you look like a house in that", "you look like a clown in that", "you are scaring me in that" etc.
I know these are general suggestions but Im trying to gives suggestions on a whole for men & women.
It always floors me when people skate these programs and are shocked that they only got 50pts for a clean program when the top people are earning 60s/70s/80s. Did you honestly not know how many points your program would garner?? And for some reason if it doesnt score as high as you want when you 1st test it out, FIX IT. Dont skate the exact same way at the next competition, and be shocked that you still didnt win. But thats just me, when I do something competition wise I want to win not just be middle of the pack
Surround yourself with people who can improve your "flaws": jump technique, mental issues, poor spins, lack of flexibility etc. If your jumps have been getting hammered for your poor technique and your coach hasnt done anything to fix it, get a specialist..or a new coach. If your spins arent the best call Lucindah Ruh or someone to help you spin better and get more interesting positions. If your flexibility is poor go to ballet, which also helps for posture. As for the mental part, thats a tough one since its your own expectations really messing you up there. I know people say go to a performance coach, but does that even really help? I seriously doubt hypnosis helps as well(Ive always been skeptical of that) I know some skaters have used them but I dont recall any getting this magical help from it.
Get great music & a great costume. It sounds like that should be a no brainer, and should be a big deal. But it is important. Boring music: Moon River etc, can kill a program no matter how clean you jump. If people are yawning/sleeping/talking/texting during your program, you arent doing yourself any favors. Plus you dont get the audience clapping and rooting for you as you skate by them or doing your straightline footwork. When the audience claps with the music and is into it it helps out in the long run for you. Dont wear costumes that are garish or blend in with your skin tone. You should know what looks good on you, and if you dont have people that are going to be honest with you and tell you,"you look pastey in that", "you look like a house in that", "you look like a clown in that", "you are scaring me in that" etc.
I know these are general suggestions but Im trying to gives suggestions on a whole for men & women.
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