Do you prefer Michelle Kwan before or after she left Frank+Lori?

Germanice said:

I can't see any difference.

Anke

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You wouldn't.

Loved just about all of Michelle's programs. Last year she seemed to have regained that spark that was missing for awhile. Just being more relaxed and enjoying herself. Anyway that's take on it.

Mk just started her career as an adult. She worked w/ Carol & Lori as a child. I believe MK is heading in the right direction, enough time has not pass to make a final conclusion. MK also has a new coach, trainer, and much more. SC ,now not before, is better b/c she was not at the top, now she has TT. MK is at the top, but has many things to work on. She will do it w/o Carol & Lori. Anyway, why do we give them all the credit, MK is a great skater with or without them.

April said:

MK just started her career as an adult.

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I have been thinking about that, too. How many "adults" are involved in the sport of competitive figure skating? Pretty close to none. In makes sense. Children and teenagers are naturally competitive. It is very important to young people to try to beat somebody else at something. For most people, when you become an adult you put away childish things. (The exceptions are people who go into politics.) As Michelle herself put it, "How many times can I do a triple Lutz?"

I have to wonder if the new "adult" Michelle is looking for new worlds to conquer.

Mathman

I have to wonder if the new "adult" Michelle is looking for new worlds to conquer.

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I have to agree Mathman.

Ladybug

I prefer Michelle any way I can get her

The Nancy/Tonya fiasco brought my attention to this sport...but Michelle made me stay tuned every year (and now every competition). She's proven to me she has it and always will...she could take the ice in a Hefty bag and skate to a Rammstein medley...I'd still be enthralled (even if she only did six triples!). I'm with BravesSkateFan on this one.....Michelle anyway I can get her.

But, if she does stay, I'm with RGirl. Either drop Vera Wang or choose another pattern. I liked her "Aranjuez" dress from last year, but its time for a new style. And for Heaven's sake, whatever she chooses, just stay away from that Nuclear-Reactor Yellow/Green shade from 02 Skate America!

VIETgrlTerifa said:

I just hope Michelle puts more choreography content in her programs, and I also hope that she would get a new choreographer next season. I would love to see Michelle work with other choreographers to soak in their input, and to me...in terms of single skaters, Nikolai Morosov is getting stale fast.

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RE Morosov, he is still young and has just left the nest of his mentor, Tarasova. I think it takes time and a rare kind of creative drive for a skating choreographer to push him/herself into new areas, especially when they are in demand because of their signature work. To develop depth as a choreographer, the way I believe Christopher Dean has, is a very tough, very tall order. In dance, with the thousands of choreographers working around the world, there are still only a handful who continue to create exciting work with depth. Naturally like any artists they go through slumps, but I could probably count on one hand the number of choreographers in dance who have generally maintained a high level of creativity.

In figure skating, the importance of choreography and the development of choreographers is still relatively new. I note the beginning of sophisticated choreography in figure skating as Torvill & Dean in the early '80s culminating with "Bolero" in '84, and in singles skating, the work of skaters such as John Curry and Toller Cranston. Twenty years or so isn't a very long time for the importance of choreography in figure skating to develop. It's been over a hundred years for dance, including ballet, modern, and the fusion of the two, yet still only about 10, maybe 15, consistently great choreographers have come out of that hundred years.

Anyway, I think we will probably see a lot of skating choreographers who get hot fast and then don't quite know what to do to move on. I actually think that leaving Michelle (or vice versa) was good for Lori Nichol. I think the more skaters she works with, the more she will hone her craft and develop her art. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Lori and Michelle work together again someday. In any case, it's a collaboration I sure would like to see.

And Bronzey re Michelle staying away from "...that Nuclear-Reactor Yellow/Green shade from 02 Skate America!" I saw a photo of it again recently and thought, "Vera Wang should give Michelle her money back for that damn color." Michelle still looked lovely as always, just too radioactive for my taste.
Rgirl

You have a point Rgirl, and maybe all Morosov needs is more time in order to "find himself" as choreographer. However, it doensn't help matters when he's spreading himself thin by choreographing like 50 programs in one season. I think if he and the skaters he works for would benefit with that.

The reason why I said I wanted Michelle to work with different choreographers was because I think Michelle is in a point in her career where she could use input from different perspectives allowing her to soak in different sorts of movement and choreography. When she worked with Chris Dean for "Rush" and Peter Oppegard for "Miraculous Mandarin", I thought Michelle really pushed forward in both choroegraphy and musical intepretation. I thought N. Morosov's work for Michelle in "The Feeling Begins" SP was excellent and different for her, and I loved the freedom and flow of Aranjuez that she had, but (run-on sentence I know) I feel that she shouldn't limit herself to just one choreographer.

VIETgrlTerifa said:

You have a point Rgirl, and maybe all Morosov needs is more time in order to "find himself" as choreographer. However, it doensn't help matters when he's spreading himself thin by choreographing like 50 programs in one season. I think if he and the skaters he works for would benefit with that.

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ITA with your comment about spreading himself too thin. Puts too much emphasis on product and not enough on development, IMO.

The reason why I said I wanted Michelle to work with different choreographers was because I think Michelle is in a point in her career where she could use input from different perspectives allowing her to soak in different sorts of movement and choreography. When she worked with Chris Dean for "Rush" and Peter Oppegard for "Miraculous Mandarin", I thought Michelle really pushed forward in both choroegraphy and musical intepretation. I thought N. Morosov's work for Michelle in "The Feeling Begins" SP was excellent and different for her, and I loved the freedom and flow of Aranjuez that she had, but (run-on sentence I know) I feel that she shouldn't limit herself to just one choreographer.

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I couldn't agree more. Before '03, "Rush" was my favorite piece of choreography skated by Michelle. "I think Michelle is in a point in her career where she could use input from different perspectives allowing her to soak in different sorts of movement and choreography." Absolutely. IMO, "TFB" and "Aranjuez" opened something up in her, made her ready and able for new movement. Would love to see her work with Chris Dean again, especially since "Rush" was only performed a couple of times. OTOH, maybe last year she felt she was just getting to know Morosov. There is also something to be said for getting to know a choreographer's style deeply and thoroughly. However, I'm reserving judgment until "Tosca" is finished. As I've said before, the year after a breakthrough year is tough for anybody--figure skaters, artists, composers, other athletes, whomever. They have to live up to everybody's new expectations. I'm hoping Michelle peaks in '06 and wins the OGM when she has nothing left to prove, not that she has anything to prove now
Rgirl

For me, I simply want her to be happy. I saw something in her last year that had been missing for awhile ... JOY!

VIETgrlTerifa said:

When she worked with Chris Dean for "Rush" and Peter Oppegard for "Miraculous Mandarin", I thought Michelle really pushed forward in both choroegraphy and musical intepretation.

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Notice that those were the two programs that were quickly dropped because of huge amounts of criticism. As much as some people love to complain that Kwan is same-old same-old, they HATE to see her step outside the box even more. Here's to hoping that Kwan sees their criticisms for what they are (mostly crap) and tells them what to do with themselves.

JH,
Don't faint, but ITA with you.
Rgirl

Rgirl,
I see Michelle really got you last season.
Having read what you posted here pre 2003 season when I first comming to this board and compare what you posted now what a different.
But you have always been objective when commenting on skating. Even though I did not like some of your posts pre 2003 season.

It has been so much fun to read your posts.
Thanks.

Jimmy Hoffa said:

Notice that those were the two programs that were quickly dropped because of huge amounts of criticism. As much as some people love to complain that Kwan is same-old same-old, they HATE to see her step outside the box even more. Here's to hoping that Kwan sees their criticisms for what they are (mostly crap) and tells them what to do with themselves.

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MK needs to work w/ Dean again. She needs some difficulty if she's not doing more triple triples. As an adult, she should work w/ an assortment of people. At least I hope she is working more than that Morasov guy. Too many people are working w/ him already. All the programs will look the same/familiar; diversity is needed.

I agree.....

with the poster who said that people critisize Michelle for being the same old stuff, but are even more critical when she DOES try something new. People want her break out of the box, but as soon as she is outside the box, eveyone wants her back to same old thing again.

I totally agree with egskater0003 and Jimmy Hoffa ... whatever Michelle does seems to make someone unhappy. I have a wishlist a mile long of what I would like her to do ... but I have come to the conclusion that with all she has given me and to all her fans ... she should do what SHE wants from now on ... and if it means she doesn't win the gold anymore, than it's her decision and she will deal with it.
There has been a sense of freedom in her this past year that didn't exist before. She seems happy and content with herself ... and even at her advanced age of 23 ... she can still give the youngsters a run for their money.
I think we still have some glorious moments ahead of us with Michelle ... and I plan to cherish each and every one of them!

mzheng said:

Rgirl,
I see Michelle really got you last season.
Having read what you posted here pre 2003 season when I first comming to this board and compare what you posted now what a different.
But you have always been objective when commenting on skating. Even though I did not like some of your posts pre 2003 season.
It has been so much fun to read your posts.
Thanks.

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Mzheng,
Yes, the changes I saw in Michelle's skating did indeed really get to me last season and I continue to love every minute of what at least looks to me like Michelle's new level of skating.

Thanks for your comments. I really appreciate them, especially knowing how well-informed and insightful you are about skating, though of course I would appreciate such comments coming from anyone. And I'm not just saying that because you said it was fun reading my posts
Rgirl

I love Michelle's programs in the 95-98 because they were complicated and intense. The image of Michelle's Dante's Prayer is very clear still. I love that program. After that it seemed either bland or emoting without much substance. Then I saw her last year at the World and vow my Michelle was back. She skated skillfully with the complex program matching her level of skating. I hope she continues in this direction.

I have to confess to being one of the people who was not so enthusiastic about Rush and the Miraculous Mandarin when Michelle first came out with them. Silly me. In my mind it was like, Michelle's skating is already perfection, why mess with a sure thing? Now I see the error of my ways. Forgive me, MK.

Mathman