2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines | Page 20 | Golden Skate

2009-10 ISU Grand Prix selection guidelines

Joined
Jun 21, 2003
In what way has USFS wet their pants over Sasha's return?

All I see is that she announced her intention to compete and they ran a news story on their website, same as they run stories about any other off-season news regarding the current elite skaters. (Mostly coaching changes lately.)

Maybe I am blaming the USFSA for the reaction of the general new media. After Sasha's announcement several newpapers ran stories along the lines, thank goodness Sasha is coming back since our present group of ladies is so awful.

As for the USFSA itself, the news stories on the USFS and Icenetwork sites did, in my opinion, give star status to Sasha. David Raith went on about what an attractive addition she would be to any of the Grand Prix events, giving the impression that he was lobbying the other event organizers to support Sasha's bid. The USFSA scheduled a new conference for the big announcement, then moved it up a week when the story was leaked prematurely.

There were no big announcements, newsconferences and quotes in the papers that Alissa Czisny has been offered a spot in Skate America, and she has accepted! Or Rachael Flatt has been offered a place in Skate America, and she has accepted!

Everyone else except Sasha has to wait for the meeting and see how it turns out for them. Or, if they do know something in advance, that news was not released to great fanfare two weeks before the formal draw.

Everyone agrees: Cohen, Flat, but who will be the third skater?

I sure hope it will be the United States Champion, Alissa Czisny.
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
There were no big announcements, newsconferences and quotes in the papers that Alissa Czisny has been offered a spot in Skate America, and she has accepted! Or Rachael Flatt has been offered a place in Skate America, and she has accepted!
Everyone else except Sasha has to wait for the meeting and see how it turns out for them. Or, if they do know something in advance, that news was not released to great fanfare two weeks before the formal draw.


It seems with some degree of fairness that Sasha is the one coming out of retirement. Alissa, Rachael or any other active US Lady will have to wait. If that does not seem fair - I don't see that it is so awful either. And as far as I know, SA has also offered an invitaion to Michelle.

Sasha is the reigning Olympic Silver medalist. If Alissa or Rachael ever achieve such a lofty position then they too may be treated with a higher degree of respect.

Or is that "it" factor = $$$. Anyway you cut it I haven't felt this much interest in US Skating since,,,,,,,,,Sasha left.
 

Sylvia

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 25, 2003
Don't forget that the U.S. skaters are asked their GP preferences beforehand (though no guarantees they will will get what they want, of course). It's possible that Alissa could have requested 2 GPs other than Skate America (like Skate Canada, which seems to be a good competition for her).
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think that Sasha Cohen is a bigger name to the general public, and therefore to NBC and the rest of the media, than the top US ladies from 2007-2009, and that therefore US Figure Skating is happy to capitalize on her return to promote Skate America and Nationals.

Your post 368 read:
In fact, I think it is worse than that. As I read the selection criteria, I think the only thing that matters is medalling in the Grand Prix final against strong competion.

We can already see that USFS is not impressed with Rachael's fifth place finish at Worlds and Caroline's fourth place at Four Continents. If that counted for anything, USFS would not be wetting its pants over Sasha's return. :)

Are we talking about USFS being impressed enough with Rachael and Caroline to name them to the Olympic team if they medal at Nationals? Or being impressed enough to invite them to Skate America? Because medaling at last year's GPF is not "the only thing that matters" in terms of this year's invitations.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Are we talking about USFS being impressed enough with Rachael and Caroline to name them to the Olympic team if they medal at Nationals? Or being impressed enough to invite them to Skate America?

No, I meant not impressed enough to be promoting Rachael and Caroline as enthusiastically as they are promoting Sasha.

gkelly said:
Because medaling at last year's GPF is not "the only thing that matters" in terms of this year's invitations.

"The only thing that matters" remark was in response to speculation about whether doing well in the 2009-2010 Grand Prix would give a skater a leg up in the Olympic selection deliberations. My opinion was that just doing pretty well in the series would not be enough to trigger this bullet (bullet number two in the selection criteria).

To me (reserving the right to be wrong, as always), the stated criteria are very clear.

(1) Placement at 2010 U.S. Nationals (This is the most important by far. Will carry the day all by itself except in unusual circumstances.)

(2) Placement and strength of field in the 2009-2010 Grand Prix Final. To me, this means that just squeaking into the finals is not enough to earn you any brownie points. Rather, you have to place well against a top-notch field.)

My only comment on the selection of athletes for the 2009-2010 Grand Prix was that, according to the ISU rules, Sasha is not eligible for any other assignment except Skate America. But USFS representatives are on record as saying that they hope she gets a second assignment anyway.

Well, as Janetfan pints out, sometimes in life you have to ignore the rules. Perhaps less often in sports. But the question is, is the Return of Sasha Cohen of sufficient urgency that the rules ought to be set aside to accommodate her?
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
No, I meant not impressed enough to be promoting Rachael and Caroline as enthusiastically as they are promoting Sasha.
I thought Hersh was promoting Sasha more than the USFS. I haven/t heard anything further on Sasha since the announcement that she was accepted for SA.

I've not read anything about her or from Lake Placid. They mus be advertising it up there. I know when I went to Atlantic City, they were still advertiising Kwan, who eventually did not show.
 

Nigel

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Maybe I am blaming the USFSA for the reaction of the general new media. After Sasha's announcement several newpapers ran stories along the lines, thank goodness Sasha is coming back since our present group of ladies is so awful.

As for the USFSA itself, the news stories on the USFS and Icenetwork sites did, in my opinion, give star status to Sasha. David Raith went on about what an attractive addition she would be to any of the Grand Prix events, giving the impression that he was lobbying the other event organizers to support Sasha's bid. The USFSA scheduled a new conference for the big announcement, then moved it up a week when the story was leaked prematurely.

There were no big announcements, newsconferences and quotes in the papers that Alissa Czisny has been offered a spot in Skate America, and she has accepted! Or Rachael Flatt has been offered a place in Skate America, and she has accepted!

Everyone else except Sasha has to wait for the meeting and see how it turns out for them. Or, if they do know something in advance, that news was not released to great fanfare two weeks before the formal draw.



I sure hope it will be the United States Champion, Alissa Czisny.

Personally, IMHO, USFS showed little respect to the ladies who have stayed in the game or have worked their way up the ranks since 2006, by announcing Cohen prematurely. Everyone should have heard the announcements collectively this coming weekend. For USFS, it's marketing and all about selling tickets. Not much more complicated than that.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I really hope annoyance with USFSA doesn't spill over into anger with Sasha who has not done anything to deserve it.

USFSA encourages Sasha simply because an aging-star-comeback narrative is good for PR and ticket sales - especially when the aging star is as beautiful and photogenic as Sasha! I'm sure they'll also play up the rivalry between her and the rising stars.

I think the PR is a lot less good for Sasha who has a huge amount of pressure and a lot riding on the outcome. What will she gain if the comeback fails?

If I were a big Rachael or Caroline fan, I'd be delighted about Sasha's return. It generates excitement about skating which is badly needed, diverts the Olympic pressure that would otherwise be on them, and stimulates them to outdo themselves this season.

I really don't see any "sublime advantage" for Sasha in any of this - just a short-term burst of PR. We'll see if she can earn her way to the Olympics.

SA is going to be a real nail-biter!
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
^ All quite true, quite true.

Although...the part about our delight in Sasha's photogenicity...what are Rachael and Caroline, chopped liver? ;)
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
^ All quite true, quite true.

Although...the part about our delight in Sasha's photogenicity...what are Rachael and Caroline, chopped liver? ;)

Caroline and Rachael are both cute. One is delicate and demure - the other has that "Jan Brady" thing going for her. ;)
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
off topic
Wasnt somewhere a conversation about grand prix in men and who goes where?I m searching for it, but I m not sure if i read it or dreamt it...:rolleye:
 

PolymerBob

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
off topic
Wasnt somewhere a conversation about grand prix in men and who goes where?I m searching for it, but I m not sure if i read it or dreamt it...:rolleye:

Yes there was. The feeling was that the USFSA should not send their best men to the same event. But we couldn't decide who our best men are. If you go by Nationals, they are Jeremy and Brandon. If you go by Worlds, they are Evan and Brandon. If you go by 4 Continents, they are Evan and Jeremy. If you go by the Grand Prix Final, they are Jeremy and Johnny.

So who are our best men? We couldn't figure it out. :scratch:
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Yes there was. The feeling was that the USFSA should not send their best men to the same event. But we couldn't decide who our best men are. If you go by Nationals, they are Jeremy and Brandon. If you go by Worlds, they are Evan and Brandon. If you go by 4 Continents, they are Evan and Jeremy. If you go by the Grand Prix Final, they are Jeremy and Johnny.

So who are our best men? We couldn't figure it out. :scratch:

I will bluntly say that for the international competitions, Evan, Johnny, Jeremy, Brandon, in that order. You can't go by just one competition.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I really hope annoyance with USFSA doesn't spill over into anger with Sasha who has not done anything to deserve it.

[snip]

I think the PR is a lot less good for Sasha who has a huge amount of pressure and a lot riding on the outcome. What will she gain if the comeback fails?

If I were a big Rachael or Caroline fan, I'd be delighted about Sasha's return. It generates excitement about skating which is badly needed, diverts the Olympic pressure that would otherwise be on them, and stimulates them to outdo themselves this season.

I really don't see any "sublime advantage" for Sasha in any of this - just a short-term burst of PR. We'll see if she can earn her way to the Olympics.

Good points. It takes pressure off of the current ladies, and if she is successful, will (hopefully) push them to raise their game, and it becomes a win-win situation. At least, up until the Olympic selection when she would take up one of the spots, leaving space for only ONE (other) lady to go. :indiff:

Although...the part about our delight in Sasha's photogenicity...what are Rachael and Caroline, chopped liver?

Photogenicity is subjective, remember that. But that said, Cohen is what- 24? will be 25 soon? Flatt and Zhang are both 16. Too young for a real comparison IMO. They may end up looking quite different at 22.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Good points. It takes pressure off of the current ladies, and if she is successful, will (hopefully) push them to raise their game, and it becomes a win-win situation. At least, up until the Olympic selection when she would take up one of the spots, leaving space for only ONE (other) lady to go. :indiff: [/QUOTE


I think Sasha's return is good even if her comeback attempt is a big flop.
I don't see how her return takes any pressure off our current ladies - or adds much either. I am sure they are going about their regular routines as if nothing has changed.
I initially thought Sasha would be either 1 or 2 at Natls and be put on Team USA. The more I think about it the less I see this happening. It's not that I just think her time has passed but I think a couple of our young girls will show enough improvement to send Sasha back to SOI.
Rachael, Caroline and Mirai may all finish ahead of Sasha. So could Ashley and Alissa. There is also Kimmie, Emily and others who could have great skates at Nationals. No way am I suggesting they will all beat Sasha - but I believe 3 or four of them could. Caroline has got to be out for blood this year and Mirai has a lot to prove too. We have already seen how determined Rachael is and there is doubt that Ashley wants it too. Sometimes we forget how much these younger skaters can improve in one year.
Sasha was never the steadiest jumper and I can't see how she will be better coming back. If anything I suspect her jumps may be more erratic than before. That alone could seal her fate.
 

visaliakid

Final Flight
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Country
United-States
I look for the assignment line up for Skate America to most likely be:

Cohen, Flatt and TBD. (The tbd a hold open slot for Michelle Kwan to accept or reject at some period over the summer.)

If Kwan has already told U.S. F.S. she will not be competing on the Grand Prix circuit, but choose regionals and or one or two ISU International B events as a nationals qualifying route; then it's anyone's guess who gets the TBD slot.

With the shakeup in the order of GP events this season, with SA and SC coming next to last and last in the six event lineup, we might see different philosophies being applied to whom should get the slots. This is a factor to consider.

Alissa Czisny has usually competed at Skate Canada as her first GP assignment, and not Skate America. With those two events as the last two of next seasons grand prix, again the selection reasoning could be totally different this time out. We will have to wait and see.

Speaking of waiting, as Sylvia (if I recall correctly) has noted elsewhere the ISU has released the GP assignments 2 or three days after the conclusion of the assignments conference conclusion. If they follow this pattern I expect to see the lists published on or around June 1st or 2nd.
 
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