Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

antmanb · May 14, 2009

Joesitz said:
I don't watch boy bands except when they are on Sat.NiteLive and they are usually in very unkempt clothing. No problem.

Unkempt seem to be the fashion du jour :laugh:

Joesitz said:
What is interesting is you named a few boy bands who do wear ornamental accoutrements (not surprise for you to jump to exceptions)

I have no idea what you mean by the sentence i highlighted in bold :scratch:

In any event you seem to have completely misinterpreted what i wrote - the examples I gave were of high street fashion brands using sequins/crystals in mens fashion, not names of boybands!! (i thought the concept of "boybands" was completely out of favour at the moment and that none really exist at the moment?). I used it simply to highlight that mens fashion has its fair share of sequins/crystals at the moment to point out that men do wear sequins/sparklies, and it isn't just in the context of costumes figure skating or otherwise.

Joesitz said:
So you seem to agree with the poster who thought ornamental costumes belong in Sports. No?

No. ( I suspect you've probably paraphrased innacurately there anyway).

I don't know why we have to talk about "sport" as a whole. We're (or certainly i'm) not talking about sport as a whole, i'm talking about FIGURE SKATING. The rest of the unjudged sports have no part in this debate because they are sufficiently different to be irrelevant. I think costumes (note the lack of your word "ornamental") definitely belong in figure skating and my opinions as to why are set out all over this thread.

Ant

gio · May 14, 2009

antmanb said:
The Italian brand De Puta Madre (excuse the expletives but that's the name of the brand) also.

OT - It's a Spanish brand, I think. I've never really heard about that brand, but I've seen boys with t-shirts with that name written on it. And I was surprised since I know the gross meaning :eek:

'cause Italian and Spanish are very similiar. But I've learned today that in Spanish that expression doesn't have just the bad meaning but it can mean in slang also "great".

Back on topic, which skaters wore simple costumes? Maybe just Hamilton and Stojko.
FS is an art and costumes are part of it. If the costumes should be sporty as in ski, I think also music should be abolished. Let's the skaters just jump and spin. :indiff:

Joesitz (RIP) · May 14, 2009

gio said:
Back on topic, which skaters wore simple costumes? Maybe just Hamilton and Stojko.
FS is an art and costumes are part of it. If the costumes should be sporty as in ski, I think also music should be abolished. Let's the skaters just jump and spin. :indiff:

Of course, it is in the same category as Grand Opera and Grand Ballet and it is more an Art than it is a Sport. It's more of a Grand Pagaent where costumes are the most important factor in judging.

Those Ms World's and Children's pagaents are costume necessary. Yes?

wishmaker · May 14, 2009

It's okay with me if the skater/skaters want to wear plain, attractive or elaborate costumes because that's their choice. Skate Canada has explained their side that they would want simple costumes. That's their choice, too. It doesn't matter whether the skater would appear macho or not, that's their choice also. This topic is stretching away from figure skating.

wishmaker · May 15, 2009

And extra thoughts on this topic of Changing The Image Of .. is that the figure skaters must be really resilient and strong, mentally and emotionally with different kinds of people watching them, people with different kinds of views some complementing, some are not - and they definitely are greatly influenced by all of the media (print and video and net forums) and yet for the love/passion for figure skating, they still can handle and go on each day until the competitions and even after the competitions. No matter what, figure skating with all the suggestions of how and what to change to make it better, each and every skater contribute to make figure skating interesting - and they should be complemented for being what they are.

antmanb · May 15, 2009

gio said:
Back on topic, which skaters wore simple costumes? Maybe just Hamilton and Stojko.

Stojko may have had some simple costumes, but he also had his fair share of unholy stinkers for costumes. His penchant for pleather in his costumes, ironically made him look like something out of an 80s gay club. I can think of at least 4 or 5 of his costumes which looked very leather/bondage and plastic shiny PVC!

Ant

seniorita · May 15, 2009

sometimes stojko was dressed à la Elvis has left the building, i have only image of his costumes after 1999 though..

a bit out of subject, have you read what lambiel said recently about his zebra costume?

[If you remember something from my career, it is likely that costume. What I was thinking when I imagined this program was a story around this zebra who is looking at snow for the first time in his life. And he's kind of in another world, kind of lost and trying to find his way. It was kind of a fairytale] :laugh:

cute

wishmaker · May 15, 2009

Thanks for the tidbits SENIORITA. I can imagine Lambiel's face when he said it.

Buttercup · May 15, 2009

gio said:
Back on topic, which skaters wore simple costumes? Maybe just Hamilton and Stojko.

Recently or in general? Because you can't go any simpler than Kozuka's SP outfit in 2007-8 (bowling night in Gotheburg! :biggrin:

) and his LP look this past season. In pairs, Ingo Steuer won worlds in black trousers and a black t-shirt, while Mandy wore what looked like a pretty basic summer dress with some flowers. Gordeeva and Grinkov's 1994 LP costumes weren't too ornamented either. Also, IIRC, Phillipe Candeloro went basic black for his Godfather program, at least at Olys.

I would say there's plenty of possiblities to work with between super-simple (Scott and Tessa) and way over the top (like some the the Paso Doble costumes on the guys at Worlds - hideous stuff). I'm happy to see a variety of different approaches to costumes so long is it's not distracting from the performance.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 15, 2009

Buttercup said:
Recently or in general? Because you can't go any simpler than Kozuka's SP outfit in 2007-8 (bowling night in Gotheburg! ) and his LP look this past season. In pairs, Ingo Steuer won worlds in black trousers and a black t-shirt, while Mandy wore what looked like a pretty basic summer dress with some flowers. Gordeeva and Grinkov's 1994 LP costumes weren't too ornamented either. Also, IIRC, Phillipe Candeloro went basic black for his Godfather program, at least at Olys.

I would say there's plenty of possiblities to work with between super-simple (Scott and Tessa) and way over the top (like some the the Paso Doble costumes on the guys at Worlds - hideous stuff). I'm happy to see a variety of different approaches to costumes so long is it's not distracting from the performance.

Exactly, Audrey Hepburn could be rolled into a bolt of material and be the best dressed lady at the party. No?

I think the best answer to this (because sequins will never cease) is to dress with taste and not with flamboyancy.

dancingqueen · May 15, 2009

seniorita said:
a bit out of subject, have you read what lambiel said recently about his zebra costume?

[If you remember something from my career, it is likely that costume. What I was thinking when I imagined this program was a story around this zebra who is looking at snow for the first time in his life. And he's kind of in another world, kind of lost and trying to find his way. It was kind of a fairytale]

cute

I love the story, it’s imaginative and he has his own world. Thank you for bringing up !

When my friends saw his zebra costume, they said it’s too flamboyant , but I was more wondering what’s the meaning of the costume with the music four seasons.

viv · May 15, 2009

Mathman said:
I don't know if this is the interview, but it is CBC's take on the whole "tough" campaign. The part with Ms. Wilkes starts at 2:15. She says, "The generalization that all male figure skaters are gay is a tremendous mistake."
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/ondemand/?...84aafb8762f4caf9334b9c03d1&videoId=1009723783 ....

I'm a bit late with this, but thanks for the link!

jennylovskt · May 16, 2009

Gordeeva and Grinkov's costume in 1993 was classic, simple, beautiful, and fashionable in one.

http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/pictures/marg/GordeevaGrinkov01.gif

Tonichelle · May 16, 2009

mycelticblessing said:
^ I played the baritone horn too! Except we call it an euphonium. It is sort of 'manly', but I couldn't complain, as there was a girl who got put into the tuba section!

I had a four key(valve) Euphonium, the guys had the three key 'baritone' (at least that's how it was explained to me the difference... the fourth key was just a cheat key lol)

My best friend started out as a percussionist (not a very good one, I'm afraid) and then switched to Tuba our junior year... she could only play two songs by the time we graduated "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" and "Happy Birthday" and knew the Bflat scale. :laugh:

Phil Cohen · May 21, 2009

Mens figure skating needs to find a middle ground between the extremes of Johnny Weir & Elvis Stojko. Yes, sometimes the costumes ARE silly, but that's a separate issue.

My guess, is that, in their early days, both Elvis Stojko & Johnny Weir faced ridicule(albeit for different reasons) for their involvement with figure skating, and their extreme public personas are as much to send a message to the people that know them as they are to send a message to the public.

As a straight male who has done recreational ice skating for more than 2 decades, I much more respect those male skating champions that are secure enough that they feel no need to send such messages.

Yes, figure skating is a combination of athletics & dance(the proportions of each depends on the individual. For me,it's 80% athletics). It's interesting to note, that in the U.S.A., that figure skating competitions were male-only until the 1920's, but now this is thought of as a ladies sport. I don't really think of it as such, but I would say that it is non-violent sport.

janetfan · May 21, 2009

Phil Cohen said:
Mens figure skating needs to find a middle ground between the extremes of Johnny Weir & Elvis Stojko. Yes, sometimes the costumes ARE silly, but that's a separate issue.
My guess, is that, in their early days, both Elvis Stojko & Johnny Weir faced ridicule(albeit for different reasons) for their involvement with figure skating, and their extreme public personas are as much to send a message to the people that know them as they are to send a message to the public.
As a straight male who has done recreational ice skating for more than 2 decades, I much more respect those male skating champions that are secure enough that they feel no need to send such messages.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Phil. I can't speak for others but I certainly share your perspective, particularly the second half of your last sentence.
I could care less about a skaters private lifestyle as it is none of my business.
I don't care for excessive or outlandish behavior either as it is not good for the sport. Michelle and Brian B. became skating icons because of what they accomplished on the ice and the way they handled themselves off the ice.
They were skaters all (or most) of us could respect. Unfortunately I don't think I will ever feel that way about Elvis or Johnny.

Mathman · May 21, 2009

Welcome, Phil Cohen. I hope you like it here. Post often, post long. :clap:

Joesitz (RIP) · May 21, 2009

While I believe Elvis and Johnny should skate the way they feel, To thine own sweet self, be true I would leave that to skating abilities. A lutz is a lutz is a lutz. No?

i think the discussion is about the style of costumes more than the style of skating. I'm all for blouses (or whatever) sans costume jewelry accompanied by dark trousers.

In the Idol contest was the winner without feminine accoutements as opposed to the better singer who was decidedly feminine in appearance but not in voice. America says it does not want fem men in anything.

The female fans of figure skating, I believe, are enraptured with glitzy costumes for skating, but they degrade the Sport. And, how many women enjoy the Mens events as sport? I know 25 of you do, but the 2000 others couldn't care less about the sport except to see men looking glitzy.

The above is JMO.

Spun Silver · May 21, 2009

Phil Cohen said:
Mens figure skating needs to find a middle ground between the extremes of Johnny Weir & Elvis Stojko.

This isn't aimed at you personally, but every time I hear a call for middle ground I think of one of my favorite quotes: "Nothing in excess is excessive nothingness." (A. R. Ammons, "The Golden Mean")

Why oh why would the figure skating world not have room for both Elvis and Johnny? Both types have won many medals so it would appear that both can skate. Settled! :laugh:

Who skates best, that's all that matters to me. And what they wear is of ... what comes after tertiary? ... interest to me. Except that I always think Johnny is beautiful.

I don't think any of the male singles skaters are that far out. Ice dancers are the guilty ones!

Audrey19 · May 21, 2009

Joesitz said:
The female fans of figure skating, I believe, are enraptured with glitzy costumes for skating, but they degrade the Sport. And, how many women enjoy the Mens events as sport? I know 25 of you do, but the 2000 others couldn't care less about the sport except to see men looking glitzy.

The above is JMO.

:scratch: Do you really think so? Generally on this forum I get the impression that many women are very interested in the athletic side of figure skating.
Personally I could care less about the costume, except if it's either very beautiful or very ugly. It's the skating that really interests me, the costume is second-rate. What's the use of a fashionable, glitzy costume if the skating is boring?
For instance, I really loved Patrick Chan this season, but I can't really say if I liked his costumes for both the short and the long and if they were glitzy or not.

Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

antmanb

gio

Joesitz (RIP)

wishmaker

wishmaker

antmanb

seniorita

wishmaker

Buttercup

Joesitz (RIP)

dancingqueen

viv

jennylovskt

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll

Phil Cohen

janetfan

Match Penalty

Mathman

Joesitz (RIP)

Spun Silver

Audrey19

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