Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating
- Thread starter IDLERACER
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- Jun 21, 2003
Well, I just watched Johnny's "Swan" program a few times to try to judge whether it would have had the same impact with a less elaborate costume. Kind of hard to tell, in my opinion. To speak to the points that Dancingqueen raised, I think Johnny's triple Axel would have been just as huge no matter what he was wearing. The "every movement and expression " part is harder to guess.
The fact that with a glove beak and feather-looking shirt Johnny could actually look like a swan, as Antman mentioned -- I don't know. I seems strange to hold an athletic contest to determine who can look the most like a bird. Plushenko could try for an eagle, I suppse.
Here is an example, for me. The only thing I rememeber about Ilia Kulik's Olympic LP is that he wore a comical shirt. (I "know" that he did a quad, but I don't really "remember" it in my mind's eye.)
But his "Rockit" program, I remember not only the overall spirit of the program, but also many of the choreographic details.
But I can't remember what clothes he wore.
As for Michelle's Salome outfit, I though it was ridiculous -- a little girl playing dress-up with old clothes that she found in a trunk in the attic, left over from grandma's days as a showgirl. (If you want sexy, that would be Michelle's plain white "The Feeling Begins" dress -- of course, then she was 23.)
The fact that with a glove beak and feather-looking shirt Johnny could actually look like a swan, as Antman mentioned -- I don't know. I seems strange to hold an athletic contest to determine who can look the most like a bird. Plushenko could try for an eagle, I suppse.
Here is an example, for me. The only thing I rememeber about Ilia Kulik's Olympic LP is that he wore a comical shirt. (I "know" that he did a quad, but I don't really "remember" it in my mind's eye.)
But his "Rockit" program, I remember not only the overall spirit of the program, but also many of the choreographic details.
But I can't remember what clothes he wore.As for Michelle's Salome outfit, I though it was ridiculous -- a little girl playing dress-up with old clothes that she found in a trunk in the attic, left over from grandma's days as a showgirl. (If you want sexy, that would be Michelle's plain white "The Feeling Begins" dress -- of course, then she was 23.)
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- Jun 3, 2008
LOL, everybody has done this with grandma clothes, i want to see the video now
My small memory of kulik was the girafe costume and his large smile and hair, but i was a kid and he looked very fascinating with the orange / yellow outfit!
Jumps seem all the same and I though back then they are optional in a program
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- Jun 21, 2003
LOL, everybody has done this with grandma clothes, i want to see the video now.
I so have to say, though, that Michelle took her role seriously. If I remmeber correctly, the first version of the choreography had her skating around with her hand held out flat, as if she were carrying the bloody, severed head of John the Baptist on a platter.. :agree:
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- Jan 6, 2007
I remember asking my Mum if Gershwin ever mentioned a giraffe as the inspiration for Rhapsody in Blue.My small memory of kulik was the girafe costume and his large smile and hair, but i was a kid and he looked very fascinating with the orange / yellow outfit!
And I also thought the jumps are optional till I was 10 or so, well perhaps not really optional, but I thought that you can do as many as you want.
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- Feb 5, 2004
Come on MM, you know i wasn't saying that figure skating is a "who can look most like a bird contest". It just boils back down to is figure skating sport, art, neither or both. Depending on which group you fall into dictates the answers you give, if you fall into the final category, your assessment of whether it is equally sport and art (50/50) or whether you think the weighting is different will affect your thoughts on costumes, music, presentation etc
Ok, but you're asking your brain to remember details from 11 years ago. Remembering a garish costume worn by the eventual winner (which you will have seen in the programme, at the medal ceremony, in every single article written about the men's event accompanied by a picture, you are reminded of it every time a "rhapsody in moo" comment is made, it is at least as famous for costume don'ts as Lambiels).
Also how much did you know about skating at the time? Would you e able to verbalise things about the programme as well as you can now?
Question for you - do you remember Stojko's costume from 1998 Olympic LP also? And Candeloro's? (i actually do but i remember all the programmes too!). What about Todd Eldredge or Mike Weiss (assuming you got to see them on TV as they're American).
I suppose I'm asking - why do you remember some programmes and forget others? Is it just about the cosutme or just about the skating, or a mix of both?
Okay but you clearly don't just think about the "dress up" costume Michelle wore - you actually remember differences in the choreography as performed at different events!! So again i'd say - the skating spoke for itself. The costume was a completely different issue.
Ant
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- Feb 5, 2004
Until COP came along you could! There was obviously the Zayak rule, but as long as you weren't repeating triples in vioaltion of the rule you could do as many or as few jumps as you liked.
Ant
I would say that freestyle figure skating competition is a sport, in which performing expressively and in time to music is rewarded because it demonstrates superior control mastery of the technique than performing the same moves without reference to music.
I would say that show skating is an art form.
Ice dance competition falls somewhere in between -- at some points in its history free dance especially has veered closer to art than to sport and has drawn skepticism from sports officials and even other figure skaters as a result.
And competitions in formats emphasizing "artistic skating" or "interpretive skating" or theatre on ice, and most pro competitions, are formatted as competitions and do reward technique and athleticism, but in overall function they're more about art than sport.
Many of the skills required, both technical and artistic, are identical. But the purposes to which they are directed differ according to the context.
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- Oct 20, 2006
It seems, to some, that we have to choose either costumes or athletic sport. Why is that? The costumes helped me to remember my favorite programs. I like Alexei Yagudin's 2002 Olympics SP "Winter". That glittery black and white costume has become part of my treasured memory of that beautiful program. The costume and the program had blended in one. I would still like that program very much if Alexei wore Scott Hamilton suit, but with the costume Alexei had wore, it was better, more visually satisfied, and more complete.
I actually agree with the idea of tuning down the costumes. But that is just for the over the top, extreme costumes. Not for the purpose of making the sport more serious, but to making them more tasteful. Over the top costumes could not be called tasteful. In short, what I mean is to make the costume more classic and classy (Johnny Weir's words) (I don't think his 2007-08 LP costume fit his words.)
I actually agree with the idea of tuning down the costumes. But that is just for the over the top, extreme costumes. Not for the purpose of making the sport more serious, but to making them more tasteful. Over the top costumes could not be called tasteful. In short, what I mean is to make the costume more classic and classy (Johnny Weir's words
) (I don't think his 2007-08 LP costume fit his words.)
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- Jun 27, 2003
Johnny rarely practices what he preaches, IMHO.
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- May 17, 2008
Johnny rarely practices what he preaches, IMHO.
Only Johnny ?
LOLMaybe people often look for other’s weak points, but not to themselves.
Costumes are subjective, and I think for Johnny it was classy. Personally, I loved his SP 2007 costume more.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Actually, I do remember quite a few of Candeloro's costumes. This was my favorite.
http://www.stefanomanca.com/port-xmas-ice/img/IMG_8753.jpg
Maybe as a compromise we could begin, as jennylovskt suggests, by cutting down on costumes that are so comically bizarre that we can't watch the program for staring in disbelief at the costume.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_E_pPmBp0ezY/SQtSpORcpvI/AAAAAAAAAWI/zpv3MxPMCBQ/s400/evan.png
More seriously, though, it seems to me that in discussing "artistry" in figure skating we often mean, "mimicking other performing arts."
"Sasha becomes Juliette!"
Well, OK. But if I want to see someone become Julliette I can go down to the local repertory theater, where they are doggedly working their way through Skakespeare.
I would rather see Sasha skating like Sasha.
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- Jun 3, 2008
I remember thinking it was totally optional, because I probably saw ice dance first in Olympics and took for granted that everyone dances and if they want they can jump sometimes. I had made up many rules on my own and for some years I was looking a total different sport probably
Or maybe i still am!The infamous too blue of his Olympics??WHy?What Yagudin did to you???
I would rather see Sasha skating like Sasha.
Did Sasha skate like Sasha? I remember Sasha becoming a gypsy, a Spanish dancer, Juliet etc.
She was always so inside the character. That is at least the feeling she gave me. She transmited me the emotions of the characters she was portraying.
I think I have another view on how FS should look. But it doesn't mean that should be the only way.
I probably like the more theatrical style of skating. Maybe because I like theater so much.
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It's an exhibition and even at that, it is not full of bugle beads and rhinestones.
Nothing wrong with glitzy costumes for exhibitions, but I doubt Juliet had any sparklers in Verona.
glitzy costumes has it's place but if I don't like it, i don't watch it. As Tosca would say, I live for Sport and love.
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- May 20, 2009
Whatever Johnny Weir does in his personal life is his business, and I'm not passing judgment on him in that department, but I recall his comment(after one competition that didn't go so well). His comment(which makes me cringe) was "I didn't feel princessy". I'm not sure that a male skater(regardless of sexual orientation) should feel "Princessy".
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- Mar 14, 2006
I see what you mean, but personally I love it. That's a perfect example of how unique a sport this is.
