Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Changing The Image Of Men's Figure Skating

silver.blades

Medalist
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Country
Canada
I don't have a problem with the idea behind the campaign, but I do have a problem with how it's being presented. I'm a female dancer and a figure skater and I take a fair bit of crap as far as this sport is concerned, and I know many boys fair worse. Skating has decided to advertise as a sport and as such it needs to be seen as a sport by the general population to improve its popularity and ratings. I see no problem in advertising and emphasizing the work, injury and exhaustion that goes into the sport, there's no reason skaters should be taken any less seriously than other athletes as they currently are by many. This doesn't mean, however, as SC seems to be approaching this, that we should have people essentially advocating that any lyrical program is not athletic or masculine, that having to wear sparkles on a costume somehow diminishes the athletic integrity of the sport. The direction that SC is coming at this campaign is inappropriate and they seriously need to rethink their strategy. The hockey crowd is never coming to figure skating competition so why waste money trying to get them in? Selling the athleticism required will at the very least improve the respect for the sport from other sporting groups, which could in the long run lead to higher ratings., and not just on the jumps either, a point needs to be made for the sport as a whole.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
There is only one answer: The two segment parts of Figure Skating should be divided in 1. Tech only and no music or costumes. And 2. The Free Skate with sequineless costumes but definitely music.

Note: I said Free Skate and not that gobbledeegook PC thing. It doesn't take much to see who is ON and who is OFF
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Not sure I understand who they're trying to target here.

Take me, for instance. I'll never watch men's skating because it's just not my thing. No matter what TPTB try to do to make it appeal to folks like me, it won't happen. No matter how "macho" or "butch" they make it, I still won't watch.

Heck, even the ladies event is quite bleh now. Everyone's doing the same thing now, no one stands out. Sure, some do the same thing better than others, but that doesn't change the overlying trend.

I honestly think it starts with the TV networks, since that's the direct connection that skating has with the majority of the fans. Tell the TV networks to portray it more as a "sport", let them show more of the bruises and falls and training routines and less of the glam and make-up, etc. Also tell them to educate the viewers on the new scoring system and to criticize it less. If TV begins to show it differently, then that might have the most effect on changing perceptions- assuming they can be changed in the first place. Then you move up to the federation level. JMO
 

snowflake

I enjoy what I like
Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Why compare FS with such a completely different (team)sport as ice hockey, just because they use the same arena and similar footwear? Why not compare the FS men with crosscountry skiiers or speed skaters running around in tricots? Or with skijumpers with their unsexy outfit. (If that's the point)

I have to agree on costumes. What is the point of sequines and bangels?

Tinymavy, I'm not sure Buttle's costumes can be described as simple - they're not elborately sequined and feathered, but this isn't exactly in line with, say, Scott and Tessa's FD outfits, or Kozuka's Barney look.

But it would be boring if ALL skaters used just black or blue or very simple costumes. Some of the fun is to react and comment on the costumes. Apart from sport and art figure skating is great show.

I also wonder if this "macho" discussion - don't like the word, don't know exactly what it stands for - is very much a north american phenomenon. At worlds in gbg 2008 the final competion was the mens LP instead of as always the womens LP. I think the organizers had to fight a bit for that, but it turned out to be the right decision. I was there and felt the immense support from the large audience. I sometimes wonder if some men(sport journalists) are jealous because the male figure skaters are so much admired by women.

Well, thanks for the link IDLERACER . Probably this is mostly a trick to have a debate and draw attention to the sport before Vancouver. Suppose that's why they make this drastic comparison between violent and graceful men. Seems also like a media/TV problem that I am not familiar with.

Finally I agree with you who want "all sorts" and variation, which is a big reason for me to watch figure skating.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I think they need to separate SHOW skating from COMPETITIVE skating.
 

yangjie

On the Ice
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
this is RIDICULOUS!

why do some north american view beatifull men as gays?

thats a streotype.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
this is RIDICULOUS!

why do some north american view beatifull men as gays?

thats a streotype.
No one said anything about gay. The question posed was about feminine-like sport, and in my book costumes with sequines are feminine-like. They just don't wear sequines in other sports. However, If anyone gets bored with costumeless figure skating, they can watch any number of Pagaent contests

btw, macho is a Spanish description of a very virile man.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Why compare FS with such a completely different (team)sport as ice hockey, just because they use the same arena and similar footwear? Why not compare the FS men with crosscountry skiiers or speed skaters running around in tricots? Or with skijumpers with their unsexy outfit. (If that's the point)
That's a compliment because most people do not think it is a Sport., and the comment that follows kind of confirms that some fans need the costumes rathr than the actual sport.

But it would be boring if ALL skaters used just black or blue or very simple costumes. Some of the fun is to react and comment on the costumes. Apart from sport and art figure skating is great show.
And 99 per cent of fans find it serious rather than fun.
 

jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Sequines are not necessory. I can do without them. But I do mind if men wear uniforms like speed skaters or hockey players. It will take away some of the artistic beauty of this sport. I think it needs to have a balance. To promote the masculinity side of figure skating is necessory, but to take away the artistic side of it is a mistake. To de-emphasize the quad jumps is to undermine the masculinity and will have nagetive impact on men's figure skating.
 
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Joined
Jun 21, 2003
No one said anything about gay.
Actually, they did.

If you watch the ABC video that is linked in the original post on this thread, Elvis Stojko says, "It's not that men's skating has to obliterate the gay guys who are skating or the gay public that is watching, but to strike a balance."

The whole piece is one of those "snicker, snicker" type of features. Like "snicker, snicker, look -- male figure skaters trying to act straight -- how cute."
 
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jennylovskt

Medalist
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
this is RIDICULOUS!

why do some north american view beatifull men as gays?

thats a streotype.

I've been wondering the same thing. Some men just have more artistry and musicality than others. Some men are more sensitive, soft, and detail oriented. People think that these kinds of men are gays. I don't understand.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
it would be boring if ALL skaters used just black or blue or very simple costumes. Some of the fun is to react and comment on the costumes. Apart from sport and art figure skating is great show.
Actually, I agree with you on that. I was just responding to a post about who has simple outfits. I posted once or twice about Kozuka's purple thing, and I think it needed something to make it a bit less dull - but a belt or some minor details, not a bunch of feathers and sparklies. I think a more elaborate look can work - for instance, Brian Joubert's costume for the original Matrix program made sense even though it wasn't like a sports uniform. But I'd rather not see stuff like this, this, or that :eek: - the last two at least didn't make it through the entire season (though I'm not sure there was much improvement in Yuko's case).

At worlds in gbg 2008 the final competion was the mens LP instead of as always the womens LP. I think the organizers had to fight a bit for that, but it turned out to be the right decision. I was there and felt the immense support from the large audience.
To me, men's figure skating is much more exciting - more contenders, more variety, and, to be shallow, more eye candy ;). I'm all for making it the highlight of any figure skating event. I thought one reason they flipped the order at 2008 Worlds was that the Swedish men were much more competitive than the women. But whatever the reason, I was very happy about it.
 

merrybari

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
I agree that the men's division should be the finale - for the reasons stated by others.

Depth of field makes it less predictable which in turn keeps the people on the edge of their seats wondering who's going to bring their A game to the ice that day. 2009 men's worlds comes to mind. A nail biter right down to the last 45 seconds.

The women don't have that edge right now - with the top runners pretty much a given. I'd rather sit on the edge of my seat than settle into it.
 

merrybari

Final Flight
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
I've been wondering the same thing. Some men just have more artistry and musicality than others. Some men are more sensitive, soft, and detail oriented. People think that these kinds of men are gays. I don't understand.

ITA! Personally I think it takes a male that is very secure in his own masculinity to let the softer side show. Artistry is not gender specific!
 

Danale

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
To me, men's figure skating is much more exciting - more contenders, more variety, and, to be shallow, more eye candy ;). I'm all for making it the highlight of any figure skating event. I thought one reason they flipped the order at 2008 Worlds was that the Swedish men were much more competitive than the women. But whatever the reason, I was very happy about it.
:agree: I also fee that Men's skating today is more diverse, not just in the top 4 skaters. doesn't feel like a done deal before the competition begins.

Back to the topic, the point is that figure skating should improve its position as a sport. It's not about being a macho - it's about being an athlete. And the difficulty in passing this message lies in the fact that a lot of artistry is involved in this field and it cannot be separated.
 

Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
No one said anything about gay. The question posed was about feminine-like sport, and in my book costumes with sequines are feminine-like. They just don't wear sequines in other sports.
That's actually not true. If you read one of the interviews with Lambiel, you can read that he mentioned that he never thought that colourful tight costumes, gold, silver and other shiny stuff are "not masculine", because as a half-Portuguese he has been used to men clothed like that - the Toreros. Is bull-fighting a sport? Well, it could be considered one. Are the men athletic and powerful? Definitely! Is it considered masculine? Heck, yeah!

why do some north american view beatifull men as gays?
That's not the point. The point is that it shouldn't matter if people are gay or straight. And I really wished that some of the skaters who were asked like that Canadian ice-dancer, would have answered: "Of course I was picked on as a child because I am a skater. Just like they picked on the girl with the really bad acne, or on the guy who was like a human calculator or on the girl who used to wear shirts with sheep on them." What's with the whining "I was picked on because people thought I was gay because I am a skater"? Everyone gets picked on as a child / teenager. Why does the sport has to change because the world is so narrow-minded?

I posted once or twice about Kozuka's purple thing, and I think it needed something to make it a bit less dull - but a belt or some minor details, not a bunch of feathers and sparklies. this, or that :eek: - the last two at least didn't make it through the entire season (though I'm not sure there was much improvement in Yuko's case).
In Kozuka's case I think the colour is the problem. I can't imagine many outfits that look great in pure purple, not even evening dresses.

Why do you have to pick on the Russian costumes? That's pretty much what they have always worn for skating. Remember Gordeeva / Grinkov 1988, in baby-blue with pink-white flower ruffles for both of them. This is an international sport, people come together from all sorts of countries and cultures. And in some of those pink and shiny is also "manly".

That's what I don't get with this whole campaign: Does Skate Canada want to change their athletes, all the North-American ones or all the ones in the figure skating world? Well, good luck convincing the Russian Federation that what they have done for decades should now stop because Skate Canada says so. Or do they only want their athletes to appear toned down à la V/M at Worlds? What kind of message is that to the Canadian audience? "Our guys are serious sportsmen without the bling and any gayness - and the rest of the world sends a bunch of poncey costume puppets" - and therefore what should happen?

Let's say D/D look even more tame and well-behaved than normally next year at the Olympics, have a good performance and the audience thinks "Oh, our serious sportsmen were so great". They are followed by K/S, she completely over the top again with all the colours of this world on her dress, plus loads of shiny stuff - he in one of those tight tight body suits that show everything and with some really nice man-cleavage. They are clean and land the Quad, are of course in front of D/D.
Should the Canadian audience now get worked up because their serious sportsmen loose against the poncey costume puppets? Because that is what this campaign implies, if you look like that, you are not a serious athlete - or in the worst case scenario - even gay! (Not that I think that or that it matters, just an example of a very colourful and sparkly men's costume)
 
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Joined
Jul 11, 2003
It's apparent that the female posters want costumes as colorful and glitzy as possible - not for the Sport but for fashion discussion.

I propose a Schism to request Men to skate in uniform and the Ladies to wear the glitz.

Still no one has given an answer to my question. What exactly is the purpose of ornate costumes? It's not traditional. No one back in St. Peterburg wore ornate costumes at the first World Championship. Everything was plain until Sonia Henie and her movies brought on the glitz.
 

Buttercup

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Back to the topic, the point is that figure skating should improve its position as a sport. It's not about being a macho - it's about being an athlete. And the difficulty in passing this message lies in the fact that a lot of artistry is involved in this field and it cannot be separated.
That's true. It's like people making fun of synchro swimming - they can't look past some of the wackier aspects of it to see the amazing athleticism of the competitors. I don't know how people can consider poker and NASCAR racing to be more "sportslike" than skating.

Why do you have to pick on the Russian costumes? That's pretty much what they have always worn for skating. Remember Gordeeva / Grinkov 1988, in baby-blue with pink-white flower ruffles for both of them. This is an international sport, people come together from all sorts of countries and cultures. And in some of those pink and shiny is also "manly".
Because not being Russian, I don't get them culturally, and to me they look hideously ugly (the outfits - not the skaters ;)). In Yuko's case, I feel the costumes Tamara has her wear are infantalizing (did I spell that right?) and I dislike it. I don't mind the colors on most of the Russians, I just find the costumes unflattering. Here's an example of how to do a tutu right - and by a dance team not known for their great sense of fashion... And it would have worked with a different color scheme, too. Plenty of Russian skaters have managed to wear colorful, fun outfits without going over the top.

That having been said, two of my examples were decidedly non-Russian. Ugly costumes are ugly no matter who wears them. Even my favorite skaters are not exempt. But you are right: the bottom line should always be who skated best, not who looked best.
 
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