- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I did use baited one time and got immediate response that it has nothing to do with fishing.
Unless you were ice fishing - and brought along your skates. Then it would all come together.
US Men's Olympic Team
- Thread starter janetfan
- Start date
Unless you were ice fishing - and brought along your skates. Then it would all come together.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Worried about Evan's spot on the team?
I doubt, highly, that he'll have trouble making the team, or the fact that his GPF season might not be the best (We won't know until December)... he's the Reigning World Champion, that holds weight no matter what the rules say.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
Do you think it's fair to make a World or Olympic team selection based on Nationals alone? I don't think so. It's an effort to raise the value of the US Nationals competition, but it's not fair for the entire country to send some one who peaked in one competition but couldn't and is not the representitive of the power and the level of the skating in this country. Yes, I realized that there will be too easy having the under-the-table deals and special interests if there is not a certain selecting guide. Maybe the Japanese way is a lot more fair.
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- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Well yes, I do think it is fair that Natls count for so much in determining US team. I don't think it has to be the only factor though. But the fact that Olympics follow Natls so closely is extremely important. If a skater is skating great in October and poorly in January - that should be a factor. Even worse imo are results from the previous season. Being good in 2009 and bad in 2010 is to be considered. Of course a skater's track record and career achievemnets come into consideration. Maybe Japanese system is better but I am only a little familair with it. Dont forget I have been following skating for a long time. By that i mean I dont like or trust current scoring system. I dont see much importance at all to GP except as a money maker for ISU. I watched skating for many years before there even was a Grand Prix. Maybe that is why I talk about the long tradition of US Nationals. It doesn't mean I think I am right and I dont want to sound like I am against progress either. But what can be more fair than saying, "this is it. Skate your best at Natls if you want to go to Olympics." That worked for US Skating for like 60-70 years and I think we have won enough medals to show that using Natls to pick Olympic team is viable.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
I think it's very important, we can change the names or the places, but the fact that we have these competitions are very important for keeping this sport going.
Sounds too simple to me. I think anything if it's too simple, it will inevitably have more holes need to be filled.
How many medals are enough medals?
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I think it's very important, we can change the names or the places, but the fact that we have these competitions are very important for keeping this sport going.
Sounds too simple to me. I think anything if it's too simple, it will inevitably have more holes need to be filled.
How many medals are enough medals?
Good points. Perhaps the GP series has helped expand skating to new markets but for some reason it's popularity has reached an all-time low in North America. It has been on a downward spiral for years now and it might be unfair to blame the GP series. But it apparently has done nothing to help it either.
It is certainly possible to note that North American skaters as a whole have been lacking 'it" factor. US and Canadian champions have lacked charisma and none have really captured the public's imagination since Michelle. Is it possible that Kurt Browning was the last Canadian champion with big "it" factor?
Simplicity can be powerful. For all the talk about "do well in GP and you will go to Vancouver" this simply is not true. The only sure ticket to Olympics/Worlds is to skate well at Nationals.
Having a scoring system that is like Greek to the casual fan coupled with anonymous judges' scores is not selling in North America. I don't think it ever will and if the loss of TV broadcast money didn't wake up ISU then nothing will.
Simplicity has it's advantages. It can keep casual fans interested. COP can't and who can blame so many fans for losing interest in a sport they used to follow on TV.
Medals - I don't think medals are the key. Michelle and Sasha both failed to win OGM yet they were miles ahead of either Tara or Sarah in popularity.
Evan just won WC and there has not been a ripple here in USA. Johnny tries but for every fan that likes him there are just as many that are turned off by him.
So yes, we have won enough medals over the years. The problem now may have more to do with a group of skaters lacking it factor. I don't mean having little fan clubs with die hard skating fans. I am talking about crossover "it" factor. The real thing. Having something that captures the public's imagination. Maybe this is rare and only comes along once in a generation.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Maybe Borne and Kraatz.
It's too bad that we can't make something out of ice dancing. The best U.S. skaters right now are Belbin and Agosto and Davis and White. With S&B, H&H, C&Z
and the S's coming up right behind them. "It" up the wazoo, if you ask me.But nobody asked me. Unfortunately, all the negatives of figure skating in the public mind -- sissy sport, cheating and politics -- are all the more magnified for ice dancing.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Maybe Borne and Kraatz.
It's too bad that we can't make something out of ice dancing. The best U.S. skaters right now are Belbin and Agosto and Davis and White. With S&B, H&H, C&Z
But nobody asked me. Unfortunately, all the negatives of figure skating in the public mind -- sissy sport, cheating and politics -- are all the more magnified for ice dancing.
I agree about Bourne and Kratz and I think B/A have done alot to lift the profile of the Dance in USA. North America does have some really nice Dance teams heading into this season and maybe this will help raise the popularity here.
As an ancient one, who watched the '84 Sarajevo games I remember the impact T/D made. I remember the buzz surrounding their Gala skate and how hyped it was, much more than either Katerina or Scott.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Unfortunately, all the negatives of figure skating in the public mind -- sissy sport, cheating and politics -- are all the more magnified for ice dancing.
Are you so sure about that? Some of the negatives - cheating - can be applied to the Pairs after SLC scandal. As to the sissy factor - hmmm - unfortunately not sure it is any bigger in Dance than in.....men's singles. Just my thought and not saying I believe it. But as far as perception from general public I don't know that Dance should be singled out more than the other disciplines.
If that were true, how would you explain the popularity of "Dancing With The Stars?"
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
I would agree with this. You get a "get out of jail free" card if you skate pairs and dance because you skate with a girl so it has to be less gay than skating on your own :disapp: Sadly that is the way it is perceived.
Because of the public's obsession with "celebrity"? The show in the UK usually features high profile male sports stars from very "manly" sports, and usually there is some level of ridicule of the man for wearing make up and sequins
Ant
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
Unfortunately, all the negatives of figure skating in the public mind -- sissy sport, cheating and politics -- are all the more magnified for ice dancing.
I don't know about that. I think it applies to the entire figure skating, not just ice dancing. Culture basically played a critical role in deciding which is popular and which is not popular. Even though, US culture is largely the same as Canadian culture, I can still see the difference. Canadian culture has inherited more and still been influenced more by British culture. While US has created it's own pop culture and more or less influenced the whole world.
Generally speaking, I think Canadian ice dancing teams are carrying more classical, traditional beauty while US ice dancing teams tend to be more modern. Canadian teams Bourne&Kraatz, Virtue&Moir, and US team Belbin&Agosto are the examples of what I mean. However, the US ice dancing is still being seen as too traditional, and too "boring" in the pop culture. It will not be more popular than it is now unless it changes the direction which will be the end of an era.
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
that's because T/D skated a 'perfect program' according to the judges. To this day their perfect sixes amaze people... even those that don't know a thing about the sport.
Scott, on the other hand, won by reputation more than by what he put out on the ice the final night of competition (this is by his own admission)... had figures not been the place where judges did most of their dealing - we might not have Stars on Ice... or "Scott Hamilton - Olympic Champion"
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I remember a very fatigued looking Scott - and a dazzling Brian Orser - and that it didn't feel quite right when Scott was awarded the OGM. Katerina also won - as much because of Roslyn's mistakes as for anything she did on the ice. She was clean, but far from great (seems like there was a "dejavu all over again" in '88 for that matter).
Whether anyone cares to dispute T/D's perfect scores - the fact remains that they absolutely lit up the "84 games in a manner never seen before - or since - by a Dance team.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
As lovely and entertaining as ice dancing is, even some people within the sport (Mishin, for instance) question whether it should really be an Olympic sport.
To the public there does not seem to be anything to be measured (like how far a ski jumper jumped), not do ice dancers fall down (as singles skaters do, giving the audience a sense of who ought to win or lose.)
Plus, there is still a feeling that ice dance teams have to get in line. You can't move up until the team ahead of you retires. And to top it off, you don't have much of a chance at all if you don't have the support of the right federation and a well-connected coach.
To the public there does not seem to be anything to be measured (like how far a ski jumper jumped), not do ice dancers fall down (as singles skaters do, giving the audience a sense of who ought to win or lose.)
Plus, there is still a feeling that ice dance teams have to get in line. You can't move up until the team ahead of you retires. And to top it off, you don't have much of a chance at all if you don't have the support of the right federation and a well-connected coach.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
The GP is an excellent series to try out a new or even an old routine for feedback by the international judges. There is still time to work out the kinks or even get a new routine. Although I couldn't care less, to try out the new costumes for fit and flow. It also give the skater a live look at the competition. While the ultimate goal is the Olympics, the GP series also has monetary reasons to support skating.
I would never pooh pooh this series of competitions - not for the skater; not for the fans.
I would never pooh pooh this series of competitions - not for the skater; not for the fans.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
certainly that's how it was in 6.0... CoP allows for more established teams to be passed by if they can't keep up with the changes....
and ice dancers DO fall down... 2006 anyone? Babs' death stare wasn't because their costumes clashed.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Bourne and Kraatz and Sale and Pelletier come to mind... problem is Shae and Vic broke up upon retiring from competition and Jamie and David have scaled their skating back since starting a family (something I have no problems with, just to be clear) so they're not IN the public spotlight as much these days. - though Shae, when she skates, still gets the crowds going... as do Jamie and David. They definitely have a pull within the skating fandom.
But they definitely had the devotion of their country... and the US [media] rallied around both teams in 2002.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I wonder about Jeremy switching coaches and if Mroz had anything to do with it? Maybe Mroz was getting more and more attention as the younger skater developing and improving at a faster rate than Jeremy.
At this point in their careers I think Evan, Johnny and Jeremy will try to skate as well as they have in the past. For Evan and Jeremy that only means going back to last season. For Johnny it might mean going back to '08 or even '06.
Consistency is important and it seems that's what Evan, Johnny and Jeremy will be shooting for this season. I don't know if they will be better skaters than in the past. I think we have seen their best and know that they are beatable by the top international skaters.
That is why Mroz is looking more and more to me as a likely member of next season's Natl team. Of course he has to have a good season and medal at Natls. But he has the potential to be much better than last season. I don't think the others do. If this is true and Mroz skates well - and as I suggest, clearly better than last season - either Johnny or Jeremy will be left off the podium and off the Natl team. As many already said a sub par Evan will still be on the team so it is a battle for two spots and that ticket to Vancouver.
I believe an improved, more seasoned Mroz is likely to be in Vancouver. Evan will be there. Who will get the third ticket?
At this point in their careers I think Evan, Johnny and Jeremy will try to skate as well as they have in the past. For Evan and Jeremy that only means going back to last season. For Johnny it might mean going back to '08 or even '06.
Consistency is important and it seems that's what Evan, Johnny and Jeremy will be shooting for this season. I don't know if they will be better skaters than in the past. I think we have seen their best and know that they are beatable by the top international skaters.
That is why Mroz is looking more and more to me as a likely member of next season's Natl team. Of course he has to have a good season and medal at Natls. But he has the potential to be much better than last season. I don't think the others do. If this is true and Mroz skates well - and as I suggest, clearly better than last season - either Johnny or Jeremy will be left off the podium and off the Natl team. As many already said a sub par Evan will still be on the team so it is a battle for two spots and that ticket to Vancouver.
I believe an improved, more seasoned Mroz is likely to be in Vancouver. Evan will be there. Who will get the third ticket?
What you say about the others is certainly true. My point exactly is that at some point in each of their careers all have beaten the others. Of course he has his downs - as do they all. The results, imo, with the depth of field in the mens' division these days, reflect the one who brings his A-Game to the table at any particular time.
My feelings re: Evan are that in the intangibles - mental toughness, steady improvement from season to season, willingness to test himself and push the envelope to include the tougher elements all give him and edge that the others may be lacing. The reason he missed the podium in 2007, imo, is because he had the guts and determination to take the risk and put the quad in his SP, when NOT doing so would've given him the points to secure the podium. As for not being on the podium in Torino, he did leap all the way from 10th to 4th with a 3rd place FS.
It's interesting that others here feel that Johnny and Jeremy will work to match a better season rather than improving from that best to be even better for the one coming up. I feel very sure Evan will not be satisfied to equal his best season but will most certainly top that best with another in the one ahead.
Let the games begin! Who WILL bring their A-game to the table in Vancouver is something I'm very eager to see. My bet's on Evan!
I agree that Brandon has the potential to be a top contender. His consistency is not proven yet and experience is yet to come to help build that.
Evan already has, imo, proven consistency and better than that, improves from one year to the next consistently as well. Also I think he's as mentally tough as they come - all the key ingredients to reach the podium for sure, and surely the top spot is not out of reach either. He's beaten every one of his international competitors at some point in his/their careers with the exception of Plushenko.
Neither Jeremy nor Johnny have proven to be as consistent or as tough mentally and that's key to one or both making the team.
Can't wait for the season to begin - but we must.
Evan already has, imo, proven consistency and better than that, improves from one year to the next consistently as well. Also I think he's as mentally tough as they come - all the key ingredients to reach the podium for sure, and surely the top spot is not out of reach either. He's beaten every one of his international competitors at some point in his/their careers with the exception of Plushenko.
Neither Jeremy nor Johnny have proven to be as consistent or as tough mentally and that's key to one or both making the team.
Can't wait for the season to begin - but we must.
