Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

Mathman · Jul 20, 2009

Andalusia said:
Maybe someone can change the title of the thread to "Caroline Zhang's Supporters Thread" so as to keep the bots out. Sheesh, you'd think with Mao being the main rival, she'd be taking most of the hits. I suppose that's not feasible since there's no Mao thread up right now.

MK and Caroline, this is what being called the Kween and having a thread with over 30,000 views will do to you.

Actually, didn't Kim Yu-na say that she grew up admiring Michelle -- so much so that as a little girl she memorized Michelle's skating routines move by move?

evangeline · Jul 20, 2009

zartian said:
MI've seen many people here complaining about Caroline's being robbed in the U.S. championship. My feeling is that the US judges (they are experts, not you) might have already foretold her potential limits. I think the US has to find someone else to get all the titles they want.. some one with higher jumps and speed..someone who has inborn athletic talent in those. I think Mirai, among current senior skaters, has better potential in that respect. Caroline has been more consistent than Mirai so far, which is a good merit of hers, but who knows the future? Sorry for saying something annoying to you all who have great expectations about Caroline. But this is just my humble opinion...

Sometimes I dislike the discussions about potential. I mean, I personally do agree that Mirai has more athletic potential than Caroline if we are speaking of hypotheticals, but as of now, Caroline is the one who is delivering solid results in reality. Is it really wise for the US judges (or any judges, for that matter) to dole out results based on who potentially can do well? I thought championships should be decided based on who actually does well at the time.

As for the USFSA trying to find someone else to get all the titles they want based on scoring potential, some would say that they have tried that this year by giving Alissa Czisny the ladies' national title. And I think we can all see how that turned out...

R.D. · Jul 20, 2009

Argh, I do hope that next year proves folks wrong.

feraina · Jul 20, 2009

I think Mirai is *extremely* talented, a formidable potential rival for anyone, not just in the U.S. She does not have subtlety in musical expression nor quite as good as extension as Caroline or Alissa, but she has natural grace like Mao. Combined with speed, that is enough to get her some of the highest PCS among US ladies (as long as her jumps hold up).

But jump-wise, she is a major question mark after last season. Her under-rotation problems were present even before last season when she reigned on the JGP circuit, but besides delivering the best performances of at National's, and always given the benefit of doubt there with the edges and rotations, she has been consistently troubled by them on the international stage. Has there ever been a single ISU competition where she didn't have any under-rotations? Maybe Frank Carroll can help her with that, maybe not, one season is not very long.

I definitely think she has every natural advantage and can deliver super-big, but until she delivers on the international stage, I think it's stupid (for USFSA or anyone else) to give her extra breaks for her "potential" when there are so many talented young ladies in the US who do deliver.

Tinymavy15 · Jul 20, 2009

antmanb said:
That is interesting, and i would add that as an observation if Zhang does make the Olympic team then her international experience would be similar to that of Cohen at SLC. Competing as a senior and being on the GP circuit but not having competed at a world championship. Though Zhang has the added bonus of exeriencnig competing at least one senior ISU championship (the 4CC).

Good observation. It is even possible for her to surprise everybody and place 4th!

caaather · Jul 21, 2009

does anyone kno when her next meet is ??

LeCygne · Jul 21, 2009

caaather said:
does anyone kno when her next meet is ??

I know, I can't wait to hear how she looks or how her programs are. I'm assuming she'll do Golden West again this year? I'm not sure when that is, though.

liketotally · Jul 22, 2009

Hmm.. does anyone know if the rumour here is true?

Zhang and her mother appear to be self-defeating by trying to order around every coach they work with.

Oh dear.

fliptart · Jul 22, 2009

R.D. · Jul 22, 2009

Unlike some other folks, I'm willing to wait until November (or maybe even January) to pass any judgment on Zhang.

Way too early to predict what's going to happen based on a few observations. IMO, anyway.

Mathman · Jul 22, 2009

Who is Auntie Joyce?

Wrlmy · Jul 22, 2009

Andrea Joyce perhaps?:chorus:

But seriously, this girl must be the most hated, as well as the most adored, American lady these days. Seems like you can't even praise her in her own thread without "earning" the right by mentioning her horrible horrible mule kick and ever so slow skating.

But if there's modicum of truth in the rumor about her jumps, I am concerned. Could anyone here confirm (or negate preferrably) the rumor?

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 22, 2009

Wrlmy said:
Andrea Joyce perhaps?:chorus:

But seriously, this girl must be the most hated, as well as the most adored, American lady these days. Seems like you can't even praise her in her own thread without "earning" the right by mentioning her horrible horrible mule kick and ever so slow skating.

All through 2001 and up to the Olys 2002, the mere mention of Sara Hughes was met with Underrotations by the skaters who couldn't predict she was a contender, and we all know what happened in SLC.

But if there's modicum of truth in the rumor about her jumps, I am concerned. Could anyone here confirm (or negate preferrably) the rumor?

I'm not sure about the rumour of her jumps, but if it has to do with mule kick, that was also a side remark about Hughes, and we all know what happened in SLC.

Caroline and Rachael do have a few items to address since last year, I think both skaters will take care of those. They both meet up with Sasha but in different GPs, and do not compete against each other till Nats (unless, they both make the GP Finals. Let's check out the improvements first, if any.

Much too early to predict.

PolymerBob · Jul 22, 2009

Wrlmy said:
Andrea Joyce perhaps?:chorus:

But seriously, this girl must be the most hated, as well as the most adored, American lady these days. Seems like you can't even praise her in her own thread without "earning" the right by mentioning her horrible horrible mule kick and ever so slow skating.

But if there's modicum of truth in the rumor about her jumps, I am concerned. Could anyone here confirm (or negate preferrably) the rumor?

All I know is that her skating is so slow, her jumps so low, her expression so poor, and her mule-kick so hideously ugly ......... that she was the top American lady in her last FOUR ISU events. So what happened to all the other U.S. girls with their lightning speed, high jumps, great expression and clean take-offs?

As for the rumors, I might be able to help. I was at her charity show 3 1/2 weeks ago. I got some poor video with my old Canon G3. She did several jumps, though not a flip or lutz. The files are too big to email directly, so I will try to upload them somewhere.

Wrlmy · Jul 22, 2009

That will be awesome! I recall from your review her salchows and loops looked fine, or am I dreaming? So maybe Caroline's reworking on her lutz, and her flip has been a thing of a nemesis according to several past witnesses of her training. For now, I will just assume she's not in her peak form, being July and all.

Joesitz (RIP) · Jul 22, 2009

Wrlmy said:
That will be awesome! I recall from your review her salchows and loops looked fine, or am I dreaming? So maybe Caroline's reworking on her lutz, and her flip has been a thing of a nemesis according to several past witnesses of her training. For now, I will just assume she's not in her peak form, being July and all.

If skaters are not aware of their weaknesses, their coaches will be able to tell them and begin work on them during the off season. Some skaters have attitudes and do not work on what is needed. Flutzing year after year is more bothersome to me than a mule kick. Little height in jumps could be a problem of
technique but more likely the genetic makeup of the skater. Tara would never be a 'high' jumper even if she worked on it. Facial expression comes with age and life experiences - not by showing emotions by the choreographer. The problem exists with most skaters even when they are following a story line rather than what the music should be telling them.

I will definitely look for an improvement in speed by Caroline. As to the other specious weaknesses, I believe they bother fans more than judges.

PolymerBob · Jul 22, 2009

Well, I finally was able to upload the Caroline’s videos to YouTube. As I stated, the quality is poor. Also, I was having trouble with my camera, so her first exhibition was cut into 3 parts.

Here are the 3 parts to Lullaby for a Stormy Night. The first part is only a few seconds and is basically the intro. Can you spot the announcer’s mistake?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v4u2XzETUw

In part II, she starts the actual skating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_Pa9w5fqy0

And here is part III.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wF4cCeJ5_w

Later in the evening, she skated to On My Own.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tw9qs-QP28

Here is Brittney Rizo’s exhibition. She had a hard fall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTngGMTCf10

LeCygne · Jul 22, 2009

Thanks for the videos! She looked okay there... I can't help but be concerned about that rumor, even though I know it's off-season and no one is nailing it at this time..

feraina · Jul 22, 2009

Thanks a lot for the videos, PBob!

On My Own looked better, I wonder if it's because she got a bit more warmed up? Didn't she get her skates back right before the show, without the benefit of any warm-up at all? Her loops look good to me, certainly no worse than last year. I only saw loops, did anyone see salchows?

Maybe she's having trouble with the flip and lutz because she's working on the mule-kick and the flutz? I'm dying to see her perform in September at Golden West, it turns out I should be able to go after all.

I also have a shitty camera, but at least the lighting will be better given that it's a competition, so maybe I'll be able to get some videos of her new programs if the organizers don't tell me off.

shine · Jul 22, 2009

PolymerBob said:
At the current time, Caroline is the rear echelon. There is no skater, and I'm talking anywhere on earth, younger than her who poses a threat of beating her. I suspect the situation will stay that way for some time.

How long is some time? If you are thinking the next 4 years, you might want to watch out for some of the up-and-coming jr. ladies from Japan who were doing very well on the JGP last season. I really wouldn't be too sure about this. Not to mention both Kim and Asada were virtually unknown skaters on the international scene before they competed on the jr. circuit and totally crushed the field in their respective debut years. You never know where and when young talents are being brooded.

Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

Mathman

evangeline

R.D.

feraina

Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win

caaather

LeCygne

liketotally

fliptart

R.D.

Mathman

Wrlmy

Joesitz (RIP)

PolymerBob

Wrlmy

Joesitz (RIP)

PolymerBob

LeCygne

feraina

shine

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