Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

Sylvia · Jan 26, 2010

bigsisjiejie said:
Also: if Caroline doesn't pull up substantially after the FS, she will likely fall from Team Envelope B down to C or Reserve, though I can't remember the criteria right now. That means less USFS funding. While the funding relative to total skating costs is a drop in the bucket, heading downward on the Envelopes is never the right direction to be going.

Zhang's 11th place finish at Nationals and lack of a GP medal this season means that she currently does not qualify for a funding envelope (A, B or C) next season. I've compiled an unofficial, projected 2010-11 U.S. team envelope list-in-progress based on the published criteria at:
http://unseenskaters.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-11-us-team-envelopes-c-projected.html
She has one more chance this week. For the U.S. skaters/teams, a gold medal at Four Continents would qualify them for the Team A - Tier 2 envelope, and a silver or bronze medal for the Team B - Tier 1 envelope.

janetfan · Jan 26, 2010

PolymerBob said:
I don't see a defeatist attitude. She is obviously still hurt, and she went out there and gave it her all. She is just one of those skaters who can't be bubbly and perky when she is skating poorly. Skating poorly just devistates her. Maybe that is a good thing.

I am not sure skating in the Four Continents is a good idea.

I thought Caroline showed no quit at all. Sure she looked unhappy and after her shaky start she could have folded.

But she didn't and it was easy to see her determination to complete that program fighting for every element.

This may seem strange - but as badly as I felt for Caroline I was proud of her effort. She gutted it out and for that i see hope for her.

I do think like many others she needs some changes and may have to bite the bullet for a year. But the next Olympic cycle isn't starting until next year and Caroline is only 16.

It is possible if she has the determination to make some changes in her technique and I hope she will give it strong consideration.

cornell08 · Jan 26, 2010

I wonder who she'll go to for technique help....please not Tom Z.

janetfan · Jan 26, 2010

cornell08 said:
I wonder who she'll go to for technique help....please not Tom Z.

Well her slow skating seems to fit right in with Tom's other Lady skaters

Why not go to Rafael? He is not quite local but not so far away either.

And look at what Rafael did for Sasha. In only a couple of months he fixed her flutz. A miracle , no?

And I know this is true because the USA's best tech callers at Natls saiy it is true

aftertherain · Jan 27, 2010

I think Caroline needs to remember that she has the talent to become the best, but she has yet to unleash it. She's gotten the highest overall score internationally compared to the top five ladies at Nationals (except for Sasha Cohen, of course). And she was the first one to reach the GPF (three? years ago), was up against Mao, Yuna, and Carolina, AND managed to finish second in the short program.

So Caroline, if by some really weird chance that you're reading this, I think you need to sit back, rest, and get your head in the right place, because after that, I'm sure you can succeed. :agree:

silverlake22 · Jan 27, 2010

aftertherain said:
I think Caroline needs to remember that she has the talent to become the best, but she has yet to unleash it. She's gotten the highest overall score internationally compared to the top five ladies at Nationals (except for Sasha Cohen, of course). And she was the first one to reach the GPF (three? years ago), was up against Mao, Yuna, and Carolina, AND managed to finish second in the short program.

So Caroline, if by some really weird chance that you're reading this, I think you need to sit back, rest, and get your head in the right place, because after that, I'm sure you can succeed. :agree:

You are forgetting that when she went to the Grand Prix Final in 2007, she was 4'10" and 75 pounds. She's a normal sized teenager now, it makes a difference.

bigsisjiejie · Jan 27, 2010

Sylvia said:
Zhang's 11th place finish at Nationals and lack of a GP medal this season means that she currently does not qualify for a funding envelope (A, B or C) next season. I've compiled an unofficial, projected 2010-11 U.S. team envelope list-in-progress based on the published criteria at:
http://unseenskaters.blogspot.com/2010/01/2010-11-us-team-envelopes-c-projected.html
She has one more chance this week. For the U.S. skaters/teams, a gold medal at Four Continents would qualify them for the Team A - Tier 2 envelope, and a silver or bronze medal for the Team B - Tier 1 envelope.

@Sylvia:
Question for you, as you seem to be extremely knowledgeable on this stuff: wasn't there some kind of USFS policy (written or unwritten) that if a skater formerly in the A or B envelopes remained in the competitive ranks but didn't meet the criteria, that they would get a "soft landing" down to the C envelope for the next season rather than get booted out entirely? Didn't this happen to Kimmie, and Gregory/Petukov? Do you know if this is still likely to be the case?

BTW: thx for the very clear and helpful compilation of envelope criteria and qualifiers thus far for 2010-2011.

PolymerBob · Jan 27, 2010

Caroline is sitting in 4th place after the short. If she can deliver a good performance tomorrow, she could make the podium. Even winning is not out of the question, but I don't know how her knee and back are holding up. If she is not doing her pearl, her back cannot be 100%.

Whatever happens, I hope she goes home and recovers after this event.

Dee4707 · Jan 27, 2010

Panther2000 said:
She needs to go home & truly heel from her injuries & I think talk to a sports dr. ( Like Alexi Y did) to get her head in the right space( That is key. I think that she lacks drive right now).

I agree with you. My heart went out to her but if she loves the sport she will get the help she needs. I had made comments before that I thought Caroline had an attitude before and someone made a comment she likes to do things her way. She is very smart and I think she knows her way is not the best way. I think this whole experience was very humbling for her and it may have been the best thing for her.

Panther, I haven't seen you on the board for sooooo long. Glad to see you!!!!

aftertherain · Jan 27, 2010

silverlake22 said:
You are forgetting that when she went to the Grand Prix Final in 2007, she was 4'10" and 75 pounds. She's a normal sized teenager now, it makes a difference.

... SHHHH.:banging:

I think she still has talent. Hmph. :disapp:

cornell08 · Jan 27, 2010

To be sure, Caroline has talent and we all think so, but her growth spurt has definitely aggravated a foundation in poor technique. Before she could muscle through her jumps with the corkscrewing and muling but now its gotta take a tole on a grown 5'4 frame. Im ok with her skating at 4CC though because its right after Nationals and I doubt an extra week will make things that much worse for her current condition. And if she does well here she could get more funding from USFSA when envelopes are decided. So good luck to Caroline and here's to hoping she will rest afterwards and give that back and knee some TLC, and get a coach that can help her with her issues both on the ice and in terms of PR management/attitude. I would also not cry if she replaced Shep. But maybe I'm just listening to too much of Frank Carroll.

Simoncat · Jan 27, 2010

Caroline Zhang has Style. The problem seems to be that she needs a strong technical coach who will fix her jump technique and get rid of that ugly kick she does before every jump,will force basic skating skills on her,and won't take any screams into account. In my opinion she also needs the services of a sports physician or a good chiropractor to fix her very obvious back problem.

PolymerBob · Jan 27, 2010

cornell08 said:
and get a coach that can help her with her issues both on the ice and in terms of PR management/attitude.

I would say that PR management/attitude is one of the few problems Caroline does NOT have. If you listen to her interviews, she comes across as very demure, reserved and modest. She never speaks ill of other skaters, of course very few skaters do. I don't see any evidence of an attitude problem

silverlake22 · Jan 27, 2010

aftertherain said:
... SHHHH.:banging:

I think she still has talent. Hmph. :disapp:

Haha, I do too, it just is hard. I mean, look how hard Mirai has been working, and she's still a work in progress. Growing up and being 16 is hard for most people even if they aren't elite figure skaters.

aftertherain · Jan 27, 2010

silverlake22 said:
Haha, I do too, it just is hard. I mean, look how hard Mirai has been working, and she's still a work in progress. Growing up and being 16 is hard for most people even if they aren't elite figure skaters.

Esp. if you were once touted as Michelle Kwan's heir apparent (well, that's the way I saw it).

LeCygne · Jan 27, 2010

Caroline skates last in the free skate on Friday. :rock:

A first for her?? Best of luck to her, I hope she ends her season on a higher note than Nationals.

Sylvia · Jan 28, 2010

bigsisjiejie said:
wasn't there some kind of USFS policy (written or unwritten) that if a skater formerly in the A or B envelopes remained in the competitive ranks but didn't meet the criteria, that they would get a "soft landing" down to the C envelope for the next season rather than get booted out entirely? Didn't this happen to Kimmie, and Gregory/Petukov? Do you know if this is still likely to be the case?

Emily Hughes and Gregory/Petukhov were in the Team A envelope in 2007-08 and were placed in C in 2008-09. There reportedly was an "unwritten" criterion at the time that envelope athletes weren't dropped more than 2 levels in consecutive seasons. Meissner and Liang went from A in 2008-09 to C this season due to a newly published criterion that reads:
Athletes that were in the Team A Envelope the previous year and plan on continuing to compete will automatically be placed in Team C - Tier 1 if they do not meet the criteria for Team A or Team B.
This criterion only applies to Team A envelope skaters, not B.

BTW: thx for the very clear and helpful compilation of envelope criteria and qualifiers thus far for 2010-2011.

You're welcome!

cornell08 · Jan 28, 2010

PolymerBob said:
I would say that PR management/attitude is one of the few problems Caroline does NOT have. If you listen to her interviews, she comes across as very demure, reserved and modest. She never speaks ill of other skaters, of course very few skaters do. I don't see any evidence of an attitude problem

She never smiles though, and she definitely turns off alot of people in the kiss and cry. Its less about her actual attitude I think, and more about how she comes across in this case.

aftertherain · Jan 28, 2010

cornell08 said:
She never smiles though, and she definitely turns off alot of people in the kiss and cry. Its less about her actual attitude I think, and more about how she comes across in this case.

I wouldn't say never. Just a lot of the time. Hahaha. But I think she's a adorable all the same.

But she's three inches taller than me, so if I ever met her in person and told her that, it'd be kinda weird.

Mrs. P · Jan 28, 2010

cornell08 said:
She never smiles though, and she definitely turns off alot of people in the kiss and cry. Its less about her actual attitude I think, and more about how she comes across in this case.

I just think she looks miserable like someone is forcing her to skate. That didn't seem to be the case a few years ago..

ETA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MObZCjKHFaY
(It's fun, Zhang said.)

Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

Sylvia

janetfan

Match Penalty

cornell08

janetfan

Match Penalty

aftertherain

silverlake22

bigsisjiejie

PolymerBob

Dee4707

Ice Is Slippery - Alexie Yagudin

aftertherain

cornell08

Simoncat

PolymerBob

silverlake22

aftertherain

LeCygne

Sylvia

cornell08

aftertherain

Mrs. P

Uno, Dos, twizzle!

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