Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season
- Thread starter Spun Silver
- Start date
Yeah, I can't see it either. Can you reset it so it's not private?
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Wow. drama, drama, drama. What is wrong with Charlene that both gumby girls from SoCal hired her and dropped her in the span of like two years? Good thing Caroline left Mingzhu Li on good terms.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
REMINDER: GOSSIP is not FACT... and we aren't a GOSSIP board.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2008
I think what's wrong with Charlene is that she isn't willing to deal with the drama she was getting with these two skaters. Too many coaches, parents and "experts" trying to exert influence makes it hard to do your job as a coach, and she was not willing to work that way. Good for her.
hwell:
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2006
From Wikipedia
Coaching changes
Zhang was coached by Li Mingzhu from 2005 through 2009. On June 15, 2009, Zhang announced a coaching change to Charlene Wong. She returned to being coached by Li in August, 2009.
Coaching changes
Zhang was coached by Li Mingzhu from 2005 through 2009. On June 15, 2009, Zhang announced a coaching change to Charlene Wong. She returned to being coached by Li in August, 2009.
as far as charlene wong, 1st --did anyone see caroline zhang practice with charlene at ALL --if not--than that maybe part of the problem.\
The us public expects a lot from our skaters--and in an olympic year--the women skaters especially can't afford to go without a coach even during practice--they need someone telling them at ALL TIMES what they do wrong/right so they can immediately correct it. If charlene has a lot of lower level skaters and she can't provide the time to do that than I say--leave.
I can understand for example she has a skater at 11:00 a.m. and see she's carolilne for example at 3:00pm. that day--fine she can practice by herself--however if she practices two-/three days without a coach helping her or someone else--than yes it is time to leave, because when you are younger -you still can correct the mistakes--once the jumps are muscle memory and competition hits -you sometimes subconsciously go back to skating sloppy or practicing your jumps the way you feel natural or good-which may or may not be correct.
also why can't she have two coaches. alissa has what 5 coaches (including ) brian--rachel has 2 (including dorothy) yes i am including their mentors.
I just wonder why caroline don't have a mentor--neither does mirai-i read that ashley is suppose to have Tara as a mentor-so she has 2 coaches.
The us public expects a lot from our skaters--and in an olympic year--the women skaters especially can't afford to go without a coach even during practice--they need someone telling them at ALL TIMES what they do wrong/right so they can immediately correct it. If charlene has a lot of lower level skaters and she can't provide the time to do that than I say--leave.
I can understand for example she has a skater at 11:00 a.m. and see she's carolilne for example at 3:00pm. that day--fine she can practice by herself--however if she practices two-/three days without a coach helping her or someone else--than yes it is time to leave, because when you are younger -you still can correct the mistakes--once the jumps are muscle memory and competition hits -you sometimes subconsciously go back to skating sloppy or practicing your jumps the way you feel natural or good-which may or may not be correct.
also why can't she have two coaches. alissa has what 5 coaches (including ) brian--rachel has 2 (including dorothy) yes i am including their mentors.
I just wonder why caroline don't have a mentor--neither does mirai-i read that ashley is suppose to have Tara as a mentor-so she has 2 coaches.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Caroline knew that Charlene would have other skaters in addition to her before she went there. Sure, Mirai was no longer there, but Charlene has skaters of all levels. Li has other skaters as well. I do not know if she coaches lower tier skaters, but we do know that several Chinese girls have come to the US to train under Li (this may be a reason why Caroline left I am thinking). As for the mentor situation, these mentors do not watch the skater on ice, they probably rarely come to practice sessions. They are more there for advice, they will not help a skater fix a technical problem. I do feel that Caroline should have tried Mr. Nicks. He is not currently coaching anybody except McLaughlin and Brubaker and is she had acted early she could have snatched him up before that team went to him.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Michelle Kwan is Caroline's mentor... according to several NBC covered competitions where the color commentator made mention of their relationship...
Actually Rachael, as most Broadmoor skaters, has several coaches apart from Tom Z. there's Becky Calvin, Erik Schultz and several others. So of course Caroline could have two coaches but I think in almost all situations when skaters have more than one coach for a longer period of time(not just consulting another coach for one tech problem) those coaches work together on a regular basis which with Li and Wong wouldn't be the case AFAIK. I think it's unlikely that they coach Caroline together but then again who knows. Anyway, I hope that Caroline did what works best for her. If she didn't click with Charlene Wong or was uncomfortable in the new situation and couldn't adjust, I think it was best to not hesitate and go back to the old situation since she's had lots of success under Li.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
the USFSA has a new program going where the skater alumni are being encouraged to mentor the up and coming skaters. Brian Boitano has been a figure head for the program, I know one of the alumni that has been very interested in it and very active (he mentors a few of the pairs out of Florida) and while he doesn't go down to teh rink he does write and email and send encouraging stuff...
apparently the mentors are encouraged to do their mentoring any way they see fit
apparently the mentors are encouraged to do their mentoring any way they see fit
Sorry for derailing the current discussion, but I just watched a bunch of Zhang performances from the last years and tried to figure out why I couldn't go from finding her pleasant enough to really becoming a fan. It's not her technical issues, I've liked many a skater with questionable technique 
, not even her somewhat monotone musical choices and lack of range.
In the end I think what is lacking is the conviction in presenting her choreography. She skates to loads of ballet music, no problem, I like ballet music. But then she turns this into meaningless background noise for pretty positions. Just recently also re-watched the "Don Quixote" with Harvey and Baryshnikov and "The Nutcracker" as done by the ballet of the Deutsche Staatsoper Berlin. Don Q comes to life and becomes witty and fun because the dancers know what they're presenting and even Berlin's IMO problematic "psychological trauma" approach to Nutcracker can't derail the beautiful dancing because of the security and conviction with which it is presented.
Perhaps a deeper knowledge of what she is skating would enhance Caroline's performances? I really like her exhibitions, though, perhaps doing something more accessible musically would also work better for competition? She is very talented and still so young, it seems like a waste to pair all her lovely qualities with IMO cookie-cutter programs. But perhaps this year will be the breakthrough, I for one like her music choices.
, not even her somewhat monotone musical choices and lack of range. In the end I think what is lacking is the conviction in presenting her choreography. She skates to loads of ballet music, no problem, I like ballet music. But then she turns this into meaningless background noise for pretty positions. Just recently also re-watched the "Don Quixote" with Harvey and Baryshnikov and "The Nutcracker" as done by the ballet of the Deutsche Staatsoper Berlin. Don Q comes to life and becomes witty and fun because the dancers know what they're presenting and even Berlin's IMO problematic "psychological trauma" approach to Nutcracker can't derail the beautiful dancing because of the security and conviction with which it is presented.
Perhaps a deeper knowledge of what she is skating would enhance Caroline's performances? I really like her exhibitions, though, perhaps doing something more accessible musically would also work better for competition? She is very talented and still so young, it seems like a waste to pair all her lovely qualities with IMO cookie-cutter programs. But perhaps this year will be the breakthrough, I for one like her music choices.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
^ That is an excellent point about "cmmitment to the choreography."
However, I think it is a little unfar to compare any teenaged figure skater with Cynthia Harvey and Mikhail Baryshnikov! If a skater can get through her jumps without falling down, that's a good performance. Not many skaters are able to use ballet music for anything else but a pretty tune playing in the background, IMHO.
However, I think it is a little unfar to compare any teenaged figure skater with Cynthia Harvey and Mikhail Baryshnikov!
If a skater can get through her jumps without falling down, that's a good performance. Not many skaters are able to use ballet music for anything else but a pretty tune playing in the background, IMHO.No, of course I don't expect Caroline to measure up to these dancers, their performance was just freshly on my mind while writing. What I meant was the general approach to a program and to music. It should be interpreted, not only used as background. As a fan it is easy for me to demand stuff like that while the skaters' main focus must be to somehow make it successfully through the competition, I know.
But I admire many of Zhang's qualities and selfishly want her to improve in some areas so I can enjoy her even more.
She's already much better in exhibitions IMO, I would guess they're less stressful and I have the impression that she relates better to "easier", for lack of a better word, pieces of music? That's why I suggested that perhaps going away from all this grand classical music with a weighty history would be better for her...anyway, just my rambling two cents.
But I admire many of Zhang's qualities and selfishly want her to improve in some areas so I can enjoy her even more.
She's already much better in exhibitions IMO, I would guess they're less stressful and I have the impression that she relates better to "easier", for lack of a better word, pieces of music? That's why I suggested that perhaps going away from all this grand classical music with a weighty history would be better for her...anyway, just my rambling two cents.
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wow, katha and mathman, that's a lot of deep thougth there. i only have a superficial contribution, and that is, i would like caroline to skate to prokofiev's 'the young juliet.'
of course then some would criticize her for failing to sparkle with youth and vivacity and playfulness. maybe that's music for mirai, then, but wait, mirai's already carmen... too late for juliet if you're already carmen
of course then some would criticize her for failing to sparkle with youth and vivacity and playfulness. maybe that's music for mirai, then, but wait, mirai's already carmen... too late for juliet if you're already carmen
the nbc commenators talked about Michelle being her IDOL not her MENTOR.
if she was the USFSA would say her being her mentor--NOT her IDOL.
she talked to her a bit
not like DOROTHY helping out rachel.
Michelle as far as I know doesn't help her out all the time like dorothy-michelle talk to all skaters if they ask her. she even gave advice to kimmie. and evan
dorothy give advise to all skaters--before champs camp- as far as i know of NO,
tara --no- ; tai and randy , paul no-they might but no one has said anything about them helping out other skaters.
except for kimmie when she finished low at nationals, then it came out-that kristi, peggy, michelle -gave kimmie encouragement.
as far as the MENTORING PRogram-=I havent Hear Michelle sign up
Tara, Brian, Dorothy, Paul wylie, tai & randy has, kristi might have (i not sure)
so far as I know of MICHELLE IS NOT MENToRing .
if she was the USFSA would say her being her mentor--NOT her IDOL.
she talked to her a bit
not like DOROTHY helping out rachel.
Michelle as far as I know doesn't help her out all the time like dorothy-michelle talk to all skaters if they ask her. she even gave advice to kimmie. and evan
dorothy give advise to all skaters--before champs camp- as far as i know of NO,
tara --no- ; tai and randy , paul no-they might but no one has said anything about them helping out other skaters.
except for kimmie when she finished low at nationals, then it came out-that kristi, peggy, michelle -gave kimmie encouragement.
as far as the MENTORING PRogram-=I havent Hear Michelle sign up
Tara, Brian, Dorothy, Paul wylie, tai & randy has, kristi might have (i not sure)
so far as I know of MICHELLE IS NOT MENToRing .
Here are Caroline's scores at Golden West, I haven't watched her programs so either she had a bunch of shakey landings and bobbles or her new programs are just not technically difficult.
Short Program- Caroline ZHANG
All Year FSC 50.12 25.67 24.45 5.88 5.88 6.25 6.31 6.25 0.00
Long Program- Caroline ZHANG
All Year FSC
102.22 53.00 49.22 5.88 5.75 6.25 6.38 6.50 0.00
In the short program she was scored over 11 points lower than both Nagasu and Flatt. Flatt's freeskate was awarded over 15 points more, and Nagasu's was about 2 points less than Zhang's. Carolines total score was 152.34 compared to Mirai's 161.81 and Rachael's 179.67.
Short Program- Caroline ZHANG
All Year FSC 50.12 25.67 24.45 5.88 5.88 6.25 6.31 6.25 0.00
Long Program- Caroline ZHANG
All Year FSC
102.22 53.00 49.22 5.88 5.75 6.25 6.38 6.50 0.00
In the short program she was scored over 11 points lower than both Nagasu and Flatt. Flatt's freeskate was awarded over 15 points more, and Nagasu's was about 2 points less than Zhang's. Carolines total score was 152.34 compared to Mirai's 161.81 and Rachael's 179.67.
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